Horrible accident w/ 2 cycles in Leonardtown

[MMDad]

Originally Posted by glhs837

But not for this. The word accident indicates that it was a circumstance beyond anyones control. We should really stop using that word in cases where there was negligence/stupidity/lack of driving properly. If the reports are accurate, this is a crash that someone could have prevented. A small trailer is still in the area of 600lbs or so, and the person hooking it is responsible for ensuring it's safe. Lighting didnt strike the chains and melt them. And of course we dont know what caused the hitch point to fail. Could be material failure, could be the latch wasnt fully seated. I imagine the investigation will show that.

We cant shirk responsibility by saying accident.

Accident does not mean beyond our control. It means unintentional. Unless you think that this guy intentionally let go of the trailer, this is an accident.

Accident does not remove liability. It just denotes that the crash was not intentional.

ac·ci·dent   [ak-si-duhnt] Show IPA
noun
1.
an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.
2.
Law . such a happening resulting in injury that is in no way the fault of the injured person for which compensation or indemnity is legally sought.
3.
any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause.
4.
chance; fortune; luck: I was there by accident.
5.
a fortuitous circumstance, quality, or characteristic: an accident of birth.

[Chris0nllyn]

Originally Posted by glhs837

Are you saying that's what caused the initial unhitch, no lock pin? Or did the lock pin failed? I would have bet on not locking down the latch. I know on mine, after locking it, I give some hellacious tugs to ensure it's locked.

The receiver, and ball were still on the trailer at it's final resting place, and the safety chains were wrapped around the tounge, and the S-hooks were hooked together.

I don't know if the pin failed, but the trailer wasn't very big, so unless they were using a twig as a pin, I find it hard to believe.

[glhs837]

Originally Posted by MMDad

Accident does not mean beyond our control. It means unintentional. Unless you think that this guy intentionally let go of the trailer, this is an accident.

Accident does not remove liability. It just denotes that the crash was not intentional.

ac·ci·dent   [ak-si-duhnt] Show IPA
noun
1.
an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.
2.
Law . such a happening resulting in injury that is in no way the fault of the injured person for which compensation or indemnity is legally sought.
3.
any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause.
4.
chance; fortune; luck: I was there by accident.
5.
a fortuitous circumstance, quality, or characteristic: an accident of birth.

So, if he just forgot the chains that were rattling two inches from his hand when he attached the trailer, that's an accident. If, however he looked at them and decided he didn't need them (intention), that's not an accident, that's negligence. Am I wrong? I say the odds are pretty good that he just decided it wasn't worth the hassle to attach them, unless they simply wouldn't reach the truck.

[MMDad]

Originally Posted by glhs837

So, if he just forgot the chains that were rattling two inches from his hand when he attached the trailer, that's an accident. If, however he looked at them and decided he didn't need them (intention), that's not an accident, that's negligence. Am I wrong? I say the odds are pretty good that he just decided it wasn't worth the hassle to attach them, unless they simply wouldn't reach the truck.

Unless his intent was for the trailer to come off and hit the cyclists it was an accident. He is negligent, and should be charged accordingly, but it sounds like an accident.

By your definition the word accident should not exist since any unfortunate event can be prevented. Have you ever accidentally dropped a glass? If you had held on to it better would it have fallen? Since you were negligent in the manner that you held the glass, is it now not an accident?

[Chris0nllyn]

Originally Posted by MMDad

Unless his intent was for the trailer to come off and hit the cyclists it was an accident. He is negligent, and should be charged accordingly, but it sounds like an accident.

By your definition the word accident should not exist since any unfortunate event can be prevented. Have you ever accidentally dropped a glass? If you had held on to it better would it have fallen? Since you were negligent in the manner that you held the glass, is it now not an accident?

Aren't the pin and chains there as a preventative measure if somethine were to happen?

If I had some sort of glass holder to make sure IF I did drop the glass, it wouldn't shatter all over the floor, and chose not to use it, then broke the glass, it's not an accident.

I see what you're saying, but this could have been prevented.

[MMDad]

Originally Posted by Chris0nllyn

Aren't the pin and chains there as a preventative measure if somethine were to happen?

If I had some sort of glass holder to make sure IF I did drop the glass, it wouldn't shatter all over the floor, and chose not to use it, then broke the glass, it's not an accident.

I see what you're saying, but this could have been prevented.

All accidents can be prevented. It's either intentional or an accident. Without evidence that this guy intended to injure the cyclists it's an accident.

[glhs837]

You are correct, MM. Accident caused by negligence it is.



So, Chris, given that, the most likely in order, as I see it is that the driver either used an inadequate cotter pin (small bolt or bent nail?) that didn't stay, a regular cotter pin that failed, or no cotter pin at all.

[itsbob]

Originally Posted by MMDad

All accidents can be prevented. It's either intentional or an accident. Without evidence that this guy intended to injure the cyclists it's an accident.

Intent follows the bullet, or in this case the chains.

If you shoot a gun in a city and it hits someone and kills them is it an accident if you didn't intend to kill anyone?

Same thing. Whether he intended to hurt or kill anyone is irrelevant, that he left off the chains, didn't secure his trailer and operated his vehicle knowingly unsafe if someone dies it is no longer an accidental death.

[MMDad]

Originally Posted by itsbob

Intent follows the bullet, or in this case the chains.

If you shoot a gun in a city and it hits someone and kills them is it an accident if you didn't intend to kill anyone?

Same thing. Whether he intended to hurt or kill anyone is irrelevant, that he left off the chains, didn't secure his trailer and operated his vehicle knowingly unsafe if someone dies it is no longer an accidental death.

Can you give me one example of something that would meet your definition of an accident? Something that has no cause, or nothing that could be done to prevent the accident? Or should we just ban the use of the word since there's no such thing?

Accidents can be caused by people acting negligently. The word "accident" does not mean without cause, and it does not mean there is no fault. It just means that it was not intentional.

[GWguy]

Originally Posted by Chris0nllyn

The receiver, and ball were still on the trailer at it's final resting place, and the safety chains were wrapped around the tounge, and the S-hooks were hooked together.

I don't know if the pin failed, but the trailer wasn't very big, so unless they were using a twig as a pin, I find it hard to believe.

If that is true, then I'm betting he didn't bother to put a clip on the pin, like he couldn't be bothered to hook up the chains. Very rare that the clip releases and allows the pin to work it's way out, unless he didn't make sure the clip was secure.

Negligence on multiple counts here.