Death at the Brass Rail

[aps45819]

Originally Posted by inkah

did ANY of that happen here? Did you listen to the recording? The very first thing the dispatcher said was "play fight". Who decided the situation was violent and why? Do you have an answer? Or just another emotionally charged, yet unrelated story?

What a dumbass

A guy gets killed during a drunken fight at a bar parking lot.

Only an idiot would you're not heading into a violent situation

[MMM_donuts]

Yeah, no, I guess I don't get it.

If the police didn't respond because the fight (or play fight or whatever) was less important than a call involving weapons...and here's a boy in the parking lot with them that's dying....

I have a lot of questions. Like I said, it'll be interesting to discuss this with our friends that do this for a living. I have some questions that aren't covered by the article, too. Maybe a bystander did try CPR, idk. And even if they didn't, they aren't trained to identify and treat a medical issue. I don't think it's fair to blame them when there's EMS at the scene.

Not trying to upset anyone, just my opinion.

[MMM_donuts]

Originally Posted by inkah

I am intrigued by the fact that not once is there any sense of urgency communicated in the recordings. Did any family/friend ever notice that he was no longer breathing? Did they communicate that to dispatch or em responders? Why wasn't that communicated to the police? If the dispatch and police didn't think the situation was important enough to warrant immediate response, what was it that made the guy who decided to stage decide the situation was worse than was initially communicated? And why wasn't the urgency communicated?

Hmm...that's a good point..

[mdff21]

Originally Posted by inkah

what was it that made the guy who decided to stage?

EMS Protocals!!! any time there is a response for a fight, assault, overdose, suicidal subject or any situations that has the potential of violence the scene has to be secured by law enforcement. This is not a St. Mary's protocal, it is mandated by the Maryland Institute for Emergency Medical Service (MIEMS) for the state. It is not only for the volunteer system but in place for the career systems as well. It is also common practice in other jurisdictions outside of Maryland.

I don't know how to explain it any better other than the responders are not going to give their lives in an attempt to save one, thus stage until law enforcement secures the scene.

[mamatutu]

Originally Posted by mdff21

EMS Protocals!!! any time there is a response for a fight, assault, overdose, suicidal subject or any situations that has the potential of violence the scene has to be secured by law enforcement. This is not a St. Mary's protocal, it is mandated by the Maryland Institute for Emergency Medical Service (MIEMS) for the state. It is not only for the volunteer system but in place for the career systems as well. It is also common practice in other jurisdictions outside of Maryland.

I don't know how to explain it any better other than the responders are not going to give their lives in an attempt to save one, thus stage until law enforcement secures the scene.

Responders should not have to put their lives in danger for one second; especially, to help people that are doing something stupid. I wish the firefighters in Webster, NY had been warned, before they so bravely ran in to put out a house fire; two are dead, and many other lives are forever changed. IMO, safety of the responders is first priority.

[CobbWeb]

Originally Posted by inkah

The responders decided then? Did you listen to the recording?? Did the responder decide before or after he got there? What specifically was the basis of his decision?

Did you listen to the recording? You can clearly hear the dispatcher advise the ambulance to stage. The dispatcher took the 911 call and made that decision based on the info given by the caller and relayed that to responders. To my knowledge the 911 tapes have not been released so we don't know what info the dispatcher recieved.

[dachsom]

As an ex-volunteer firefighter/EMT in PG County (District Heights), I can understand why the ambulance crew staged. Back in the 70's, this was protocol whenever the call was for a "violent" injury, whether it be a shooting or a fight or even an attempted suicide. We had to wait until the scene was cleared by the police. I am sure that the responders did everything they could given the circumstances they were put in. I think the fault lies in 2 places, the first being the 2 idiots doing the fighting. The second is in law enforcement. I just can't believe that a couple of officers couldn't have continued on to Brass Rail to clear the scene. Hopefully, we will get all of the facts soon.

[mamatutu]

I, also, want to say that, as far as I understand, most first responders (ems, emt, firefighters, etc.) in SoMD are volunteers. Because of that fact, I reinforce my opinion that they should not put themselves in danger, if it can be avoided. Thank you, first responders, for all you do for us in trying to save lives!

[FireBrand (Premo)]

Originally Posted by CobbWeb

Did you listen to the recording? You can clearly hear the dispatcher advise the ambulance to stage. The dispatcher took the 911 call and made that decision based on the info given by the caller and relayed that to responders. To my knowledge the 911 tapes have not been released so we don't know what info the dispatcher recieved.

I agree.
I can only imagine that the caller did not call 911 just to say that
two people were just playing around and that there was really no need for them to call in the first place.

And I don't think that it's either the dispatcher's decision or the ambulance crew's decision to make a far as the way that they proceded.
Protocol is a PRE-established set of rules and procedures given in particular situations that they have to follow.

[TPD]

According to today's Enterprise, alcohol was NOT involved in this incident. I like how everyone assumes stuff just because they read something on the Internet...