Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith

[Ken King (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Tonio

I've read some Heinlein, who I don't think ever had any of his books turned into movies. Your description sounds like his '70s novels like Time Enough for Love, which were long on philosophizing and short on storytelling. I'd like to see a movie version of Job: A Comedy of Justice.

Destination Moon, based on the Heinlein book "Rocketship Galileo".

[Tonio]

Originally Posted by Ken King

Destination Moon, based on the Heinlein book "Rocketship Galileo".

Thanks. I also forgot about Starship Troopers. I read Between Planets and it seems like most of his '50s books were geared for teens. Explains why those types of books were chosen for movies, as opposed to later books like Stranger in a Strange Land.

[Tonio]

Mark Hamill said that during the filming of Episode IV, he figured out that his character was really George Lucas. So, I wonder if Lucas created the Anakin-becoming-Vader storyline as a metaphor for how he sold his artistic soul.

His last movie before Star Wars was American Graffitti, which was popular with both critics and movie fans. Lucas brought out some great performances from the young actors in Graffitti, something he didn't do with Christiansen and Portman. And Star Wars dialogue has always been clunky--Harrison Ford even had fights with Lucas over it.

Sure, Star Wars fans don't watch the movies for the acting or the dialogue. I certainly don't. But maybe Lucas feels he was seduced by the Dark Side of the Finance and lost his ability to make movies where people do want to see good acting and good dialogue. The only non-Star-Wars success he's had in the past 30 years was the Indiana Jones series and he was just the idea man for those, not the director or the scriptwriter. Everything else has been flops--Howard the Duck, Willow, Radioland Murders.

[SamSpade]

Originally Posted by Tonio

Thanks. I also forgot about Starship Troopers. I read Between Planets and it seems like most of his '50s books were geared for teens. Explains why those types of books were chosen for movies, as opposed to later books like Stranger in a Strange Land.

The *very* first Heinlein book I ever read was "Have Space Suit, Will Travel", which was described on the cover as a Heinlein 'juvenile' (somehow, even at age 12, I resented reading something intended for juveniles). It was a Christmas present, along with "The Beast that Shouted Love at the Heart of the World", by Ellison, which featured such stories as "A Boy and his Dog" and "Run for the Stars", a Kyban story (like his more familiar "Demon With a Glass Hand", that became a famous "Outer Limits" episode).

I guess I realized that Heinlein had a whole LINE of books intended for juveniles, because I've since read short stories written since that time that were probably NOT meant for kids ("All You Zombies", probably the BEST time travel story ever written).

[Tonio]

Originally Posted by SamSpade

"The Beast that Shouted Love at the Heart of the World", by Ellison, which featured such stories as "A Boy and his Dog" and "Run for the Stars", a Kyban story (like his more familiar "Demon With a Glass Hand", that became a famous "Outer Limits" episode).

I'm a HUGE fan of Ellison. The Kyben stories were collected in a graphic novel, "Night and the Enemy," and his other stories were illustrated in the "Dream Corridor" comic series. Over the years his stories have used fewer science-fiction elements and have become more like magic realism. "Shatterday" is a good example.

[SamSpade]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

I'll be very interested in getting your opinion of Revenge of the Stiff.

And I do hope you enjoy it!

Ok, saw it.

Ehhhh (wiggling hand held outstretched).

It was good. Not bad. Not great, but not bad. I think the only reason someone would call this movie *awful* is if they either had great and unrealistic expectations of what it COULD have been - OR- they heard that people said it was the best SW movie and that Spielberg *cried* at the end.

I kept asking - is THIS the part where he cried? The only moment I could think of, is that scene where Uncle Owen is standing before the two suns as they set - like in the first movie, where Luke has to decide to go with Ben Kenobi. Other than that, I kept thinking - what's in this movie that I didn't already KNOW, instinctively and from watching the others - that I didn't know would happen?

I knew Anakin would turn to the dark side. I knew the Jedi would be hunted down and killed. That the "bad guys" would win, this time. That somehow, Anakin would get horribly disfigured and require a suit to hold what's left of his body (and he'd get James Earl Jones's voice). I knew Padme would give birth to twins and they would be either hidden from Anakin - UNKNOWN to him - or taken somewhere away from him. That she would die, either in childbirth, or while Leia was very young. That Yoda would hide out on Dagobah, Ben would hide out on Tatooine, that the Sith Lord was after all, Chancellor Palpatine.

This, I knew without spoilers - I know this, because I've watched the other movies.

What *didn't* work?

The romance. It was weak. Maybe it DID work, on that level, because he never loved Padme as much as obsessed over her.

Anakin's desperation. He didn't seem very conflicted - very convinced that he HAD to save and follow Palpatine OR Padme would absolutely die. I don't know why, it just didn't seem a certainty.

Anakin's betrayal - he went from nearly killing the emperor, to killing children. He went from protesting Jedi principles to declaring them, to outright violating all of them - in a matter of *hours*. His evil came about just too damned easily.

The clone betrayal. Although I knew somehow, this was coming - they do, after all, resemble the Stormtroopers - there was no way to know they would all betray the Jedi at the last minute. This seemed like a deus ex machina.

Grievous and Dooku - wimps. They really went down too easily.

The crash, at the beginning. Not a scratch on our heroes. Even Luke and Han got banged up a lot in the movies. These guys walk out of a crash from space.

I basically liked it. I've seen really, really, REALLY BAD movies - this wasn't one of them. I've seen movies like "Battlefield Earth" where I wanted my money and two hours of my life back. This, I didn't.

But I wasn't surprised.

[Tonio]

Originally Posted by SamSpade

The romance. It was weak. Maybe it DID work, on that level, because he never loved Padme as much as obsessed over her...

He went from protesting Jedi principles to declaring them, to outright violating all of them - in a matter of *hours*. His evil came about just too damned easily.

Part of that is that Lucas didn't get good performances out of Christiansen and Portman. Critics who have seen their other movies say they are capable of real acting. Anakin was better than in II, but still too petulant and bratty.