Harry Potter...

[daniel]

Hessian,
I think you are giving black magic and Harry Potter too much credit. Spells and rituals are all harmless. If true wiccans do not belive in Satan and are peaceful then these people were not "true"wiccans. They were disturbed individuals and used witchcraft much like some people use their religion to condem/murder others. Both are weak in their beliefs and don't truely understand what they are trying to understand.

[Jimmyrich]

Exactly, Daniel...
And boy Hessian, I was wondering when you were gonna catch wind of that "sword-slaying" article.  If you were to know more about those children other than the fact that they belonged to a "coven" (no where does it SPECIFICALLY address the Wiccan Faith; it merely touts an interest in Witchcraft) then you might be able to find the true reason behind their deviance. Funny how the description of these kids fits so perfectly the description of the kids in Columbine with the black coats, long hair, outsider mentality and interest in the fantasty world.  This type of response to poor parenting, teasing, being ostracized by peers, even beaten up etc... is very common in adolescents and often results in their feeling the need to "escape" the harsh reality in which they live.  Where to they turn?  They hate society so they lash out at society.  They find something, like witchcraft etc, which can be used as a veil for the true underlying desire--to cause pain and grief equal to that which they feel they have endured.  It has nothing to do with the NATURE of withcraft, or Wicca, or Fantasy novels; they are merely the excuse WE look for for the behavior.  It's too easy, and not a very intelligent way to look at things, to just look at that act and place the blame on the WITCHCRAFT.  That's compelte B.S. but it's the type of tactic fundamentalists employ so that they can say "Hey look! We TOLD you it was bad! See? See?"  And then we're all supposed to marvel at how insightful you have been and how these "evil things" like witchcraft and fantasy 'turned these kids' into ritualistic murderers.
It is disturbing behavior to be sure.  But I would argue that the seeds were planted there LONG before the interest in the occult arose. They were LOOKING for an outlet. Had it not been this "coven" it would have been something else.  Society needs to look at the reasons kids like this feel SO oppressed by society that they need to lash out at it. ANd the true reason for this murder isn't even known yet. THey knew the daughter; maybe it was a more personal vendetta which caused this.  
Granted, it was gruesome, but the man is no more dead than he would have been had they shot him once in the head.  The method of death only speaks to the particular outlet they found for their rage.  Recognizing and preventing the rage itself needs to be the lesson we learn here. Not condemning the outlet as the cause.

[daniel]

For those of you who have not seen the article Hessian was referring to, I want to show you a few more quotes from it. Hessian provided a few but of course there is more to the story. Seems like these kids had many other issues. There is also a comment by the leader of the coven saying these kids were not members. Here are the quotes:

    "Matt Hulbert, Kyle Hulbert's father, said his son has been diagnosed with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. "Kyle has serious, serious mental issues," Matt Hulbert said. "He has been off his medication for three months."

    Kyle Hulbert, 18, the purported ringleader of the plot, bounced among foster homes, wore black and spent countless hours in Internet chat rooms.

   Katie Inglis, 19, a talented artist who often was teased in high school because she was quiet, abruptly left a Navy basic training camp in Illinois in May.

   Michael Pfohl, 21, Inglis's boyfriend, painted his nails dark colors and often spoke of violence.

  The leader of the coven, who asked not to be identified, said that Pfohl and Inglis were not members but shared their interests. She said the coven is peaceful.

Looks to me like that damn Harry Potter has turned a few more innocent, god fearing people to the dark side. When will the madness end!!!

[Jimmyrich]

Nice, Danny...I'm glad someone went back and made sure the whole story was presented.  Here's some more food for thought from and FBI study on Violent Crime and the Occult/Satanism/Goth:

In 1992, the FBI National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime published an extensive report by Kenneth Lanning, Supervisory Special Agent, entitled Satanic, Occult, Ritualistic Crime: A Law Enforcement Perspective. Excerpts from this study may help clarify some misunderstanding about satanism. This information also relates to the misunderstandings surrounding Goth:

"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus, and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like this statement, but few can argue with it... After all the hype and hysteria is put aside, the realization sets in that most satanic/occult activity involves the commission of NO crimes, and that which does, usually involves the commission of relatively minor crimes... It is easy to blame involvement in satanism and the occult for behaviors that have complex motivations. A teenager's excessive involvement in Satanism and the occult is usually a symptom of a problem and not the cause of a problem. Blaming Satanism for a teenagers' vandalism, theft, suicide or even act of murder is like blaming a criminal's offenses on his tattoos: both are often signs of the same rebelliousness and lack of self-esteem that contribute to the commission of crimes.
"Most teenagers involved in fantasy role-playing games, heavy metal music, or Satanism and the occult are going through a stage of adolescent development and commit no significant crimes. The teenagers who have more serious problems are usually those from dysfunctional families or those who have poor communications within their families. Those troubled teenagers turn to Satanism and the occult to overcome a sense of alienation, to obtain power, or to justify their antisocial behaviour. For these teenagers, it is the symbolism, not the spirituality, that is important. It is either the psychopathic or the oddball, loner teenager who is most likely to get into serious trouble. Extreme involvement in the occult is a symptom of a problem, not the cause. This is not to deny, however, that Satanism and the occult are negative influences for a troubled teenager. But to hysterically warn teenagers to avoid this 'mysterious, powerful, and dangerous' thing called Satanism will drive some teenagers right into it. Some rebellious teenagers will do whatever will most shock and outrage society in order to flaunt their rejection of adult norms..."

[daniel]

I think this line was my fovorite :)

"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus, and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan."

So weather someone uses christianity, islam, or witchcraft for violence, they are still wrong and are using the beliefs to hide behind and not truely understanding and embracing them.

[ShellyCW]

"Some rebellious teenagers will do whatever will most shock and outrage society in order to flaunt their rejection of adult norms..."

Maybe if we as adults were smarter, we would loudly condemn things like vegetables, homework, and calling grandma regularly.  

[aalgar]

I think you're absolutely right about Harry Potter promoting pagan and wiccanistic ways.  I suggest we keep our children from it, along with all the other pagan-derived traditions we have in our culture.  (Christmas and Easter spring immediately to mind, but give me time and I'm sure I could come up with a dozen more.)

[vraiblonde]

Well, aalgar!  Jumping right in there, eh?  
Welcome!

[daniel]

Christmas?
Easter?

i think i know where you are taking this but i will hold off my sarcastic a$$hole remarks in the hopes that you will elaborate on you statement aalgar.

[aalgar]

Of course.  I'd be happy to elaborate.

Christmas and Easter are not originally Christian holidays.  While their meanings have been adapted to Christian beliefs, they fall on or near the winter solstice and the spring equinox, respectively.  These are occasions that are celebrated by Pagans, and were "borrowed" by early Christians.  Most people acknowledge that Christ wasn't born on December 25th -- that's just the day we choose to celebrate it on. :)