US Nears 4,000 Dead in Iraq

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

WWI our ships were being blown out of the water by German uboats. Acts of War. Germany was leading an assault on a continent. We were key in stopping that from happening.

...and don't go any further until we get this one right. We were supplying goods to one side and not the other. Act of war??? And Germany was in a dead stalemate with France and Britain. Had we not entered, everyone was afraid there would be a truce. Think about that. Germany was not the clear cut bad guy in WWI.

[PsyOps]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

Just stop and don't go any further until we get this one right. We were supplying goods to one side and not the other. Act of war??? And Germany was in a dead stalemate with France and Britain. Had we not entered, everyone was afraid there would be a truce. Think about that. Germany was not the clear cut bad guy in WWI.

We viewed Germany as the enemy. History is written on the matter. I'm trying to talk about the numbers, not the moral implications of war.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

We viewed Germany as the enemy. History is written on the matter. I'm trying to talk about the numbers, not the moral implications of war.

...Germany as the enemy near the end when it was over and one of our worst presidents wanted to get in on the spoils.

The numbers, deaths, must be viewed through a moral compass. They are the only thing that gives a war meaning; the cost paid and was it worth fighting and dying for? WWI was NOT.

[nhboy (Premo)]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

Okay, I could take your cheap shots if they had any consideration of what I have posted in the past.

This thread is about the numbers (actually numbers that haven't even happened yet). I have provided facts on the numbers. All you can reply with is cheap rhetoric.

Sorry about that, I didn't understand how those statistics would enhance my understanding of the article.

The article was not about the numbers. It was not about how technology has reduced casualties over the years. It provided sufficient statistics concerning previous wars.

In my view the article tried to bring out that the numbers don't greatly concern the majority of Americans as they are not personally affected by the deaths.

"Soldiers and analysts alike say the impact of the deaths in Iraq has been largely lost on many Americans who have no personal connection to the war."

"It's still a war that hasn't involved a draft or an increase in taxes," said Jon Alterman, who heads the Middle East program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. "This is a war that most Americans continue to feel they don't have to make sacrifices for."

And that three things; "the confluence of 4,000 slain troops, the fifth anniversary and the crucial Pennsylvania Democratic primary could push the war back to the forefront."

I think the war deserves to be in the forefront.

[High EGT]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...Germany as the enemy near the end when it was over and one of our worst presidents wanted to get in on the spoils.

The numbers, deaths, must be viewed through a moral compass. They are the only thing that gives a war meaning; the cost paid and was it worth fighting and dying for? WWI was NOT.

WWI was NOT

Please explane especially for those that may have lost a relative.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by High EGT

Please explane especially for those that may have lost a relative.

...the two great uncles my family lost who got gassed and spend their short remaining years in a sanitarium had their lives wasted by a war we had no business being part of.

How's that?

[cwo_ghwebb]

To send people, either volunteers or conscripts into any life threatening situation, weighs heavily on any commander, at every level. To lose a subordinate takes its toll. It's our responsibility as commanders to ensure their safety as best we can. One can hope everyone comes home safely but that isn't always the case. Writing letters to family members, to let them know their loved one didn't die needlessly or carelessly is a terrible responsibility. We always don't agree why we've been sent to conflict, we just do the best we can to accomplish the mission and get home in one piece, both physically and mentally.

The deaths in Iraq are approaching 4,000. A terrible number to be sure. Each death is devastating to the loved ones of that person. These were people, our relatives, friends or neighbors, not statistics to be used to further some political agenda.

It irks me when folks are against a war/conflict because they disagree on the politics of the President. I wasn't a forumite here during the Kosovo conflict. Were the same folks running death tolls and complaining then? Our country is only racist, genocidal, etc during a Republican administration?

We have a wonderful country, not perfect by any means, but the best around imho. As a country, we've been in wars which were fubar. But let's look at what our nation accomplished. WWI - total screwup after the war which led to WWII. WWII, we won and followed up with the Marshall Plan. Even with the Soviet Union as strong as we, which economic system prevailed? Europe is very strong economically and one only has to compare the two Germanies to see the dramatic difference. We reformed the government of Japan and Korea. Look at those countries now. We pulled out of Vietnam prematurely, due to the fifth column led by Cronkite and the socialists on campus. Look at the region now.

Those who don't learn from history are bound to repeat it. Those who believe we as a country are better off emulating another social system should perhaps live under that system for a year and come back and report how they found utopia. Methinks it wouldn't take a year for them to come crawling back to the country they revile.

/rant off

[High EGT]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...the two great uncles my family lost who got gassed and spend their short remaining years in a sanitarium had their lives wasted by a war we had no business being part of.

How's that?

Because you were personally affected as a reason the war was unjust?
One could say that of any war for that matter. I lost an Uncle in WWII but I still believe the War was justified. That said, your uncle’s sacrifice still helped shape the world in 1914 and should be respected for at least that much.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by High EGT

Because you were personally affected as a reason the war was unjust?
One could say that of any war for that matter. I lost an Uncle in WWII but I still believe the War was justified. That said, your uncle’s sacrifice still helped shape the world in 1914 and should be respected for at least that much.

...didn't affect me personally at all. I was born WAY after their deaths. WWII was a good war because we set many things right, communism not withstanding. WWI was an unmitigated disaster because our entry gave the Brits and French the advantage they needed it what was otherwise going to be a negotiated peace. As it was, we made the difference and then proceeded to watch the seeds of WWII sown by the Brits and French, guaranteeing WWII.

WWI is perhaps the greatest disaster in the history of the world for what it wrought. Had we stayed out, WWI probably would not have happened. Stalin would likely have never risen to power, nor Lenin and for damn sure not Hitler.

[High EGT]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...didn't affect me personally at all. I was born WAY after their deaths. WWII was a good war because we set many things right, communism not withstanding. WWI was an unmitigated disaster because our entry gave the Brits and French the advantage they needed it what was otherwise going to be a negotiated peace. As it was, we made the difference and then proceeded to watch the seeds of WWII sown by the Brits and French, guaranteeing WWII.

WWI is perhaps the greatest disaster in the history of the world for what it wrought. Had we stayed out, WWI probably would not have happened. Stalin would likely have never risen to power, nor Lenin and for damn sure not Hitler.

The the sinking of the Lusitania by a German U-boat were 1195 people died, including 128 Americans was the catalyst for Americas involvement. Sounds familiar as to why we went into Afghanistan. Anyway, as with all wars there’s reasons Politically, Economically, and Ideology that countries jump in. The world in 1914 was itching for a War.

WikiAnswers - How and why did the US get involved in World War 1