Chevy Volt Tested: Goes 40 Miles, No Gas Expended

[CountVlad]

Originally Posted by itsbob

I'm speaking as to this being the "solution". replacing all gas powered vehicles with Volt-like vehicles.

Our power grid, as it is now, wouldn't be able to handle the extra load, more power plants would have to be built, and with the likes of the clamshell alliance still out there just beneath the surface we would have to rely mostly on coal. ANOTHER non-renewable resource.

Coal plants may be cleaner than they were 20 or 30 years ago, but they are far from being clean.. This is not a pollution free solution by any streatch, it just moves the pollution somewhere else.

The place(s) where these cars would sell the most, are the places with the worst electrical grids in the country. Like CA, where they sell the most Hybrids.

AND, how would we replace the lost tax revenue? Out of the $240 a month I pay for fuel, roughly $48 goes to taxes. Doesn't sound like a lot, but it adds up. Easiest solution, move the tax from gas to elctric. And of course along with the tax, electric prices will soar. What gas prices are doing now, electric will be doing in 15 years.

Doesn't the electric car just shift the pollution to the power plant?
No. It's much easier to clean up one large stationary smokestack than millions of tiny mobile ones. In fact, where power is generated primarily from hydro sources, EVs are 98%-99.9% cleaner than equivalent internal combustion vehicles. Even where power comes primarily from coal, EVs are 55%-92% cleaner, depending on which gasses you are measuring.

And by the way, if you want a fair comparison to gas cars, you really need to include the pollution from the oil refineries, tanker ships, and tanker trucks.

For more detailed information about EVs and pollution, see Debunking the Myth of EVs and Smokestacks and also the Tech Paper EV Myths.

Aren't the dead batteries a hazardous waste?
No. Batteries are 99% recyclable, and are one of the most highly recycled products in the country. When you buy a new battery, the dealer will ask for your old ones in trade, or you will be charged a "core charge" if you don't turn them in.

For more detailed information about EVs and pollution, see the Tech Paper EV Myths.

If we have a lot of EVs, won't we have to build a lot more power plants?
No. EVs are charged primarily overnight. This is perfect for electrical utilities, because this is the time when they have surplus capacity available. In fact, a large population of EVs would serve as a "load leveler", allowing the power plants to operate with less fluctuation between high peak demand and low off-peak demand, which would make them run more efficiently.

Isn't a lot of energy wasted in the inefficiency of the power transmission lines?
Yes, there is a high level of efficiency loss in power transmission. However, it is still less than the inefficiencies of the internal combustion engine. For example, take two barrels of oil in the ground. Take one and turn it into gas to run a car. Turn the other into electricity to run an EV. Out of the 100% total potential energy in the crude oil, only 11% is left to turn the wheels of the car. The rest is lost in inefficiencies of extraction, refining, delivery, and combustion. Out the 100% total potential energy in the other barrel, 17% is left to power the wheels of the EV. The overall system from well to wheel is much more efficient for EVs than for internal combustion vehicles.

Copy/Pasted from Electro Automotive: FAQ on Electric Car Efficiency & Pollution

i am thinking about installing a electric conversion kit in an S10.. ill probably cost me about $6000 plus another $1000 in batteries but i think ill pay itself off...

well lets do the math... in average an s10 gets about 25MPG... average american drives 12000miles a year(ill probably put less since its only going to be back and forth to work and few errands) ....

12000 miles/yr..... 25MGP comes down to aprox. take or give 500Gallons gasoline, at $3.8 since the gasoline price its going to fluctuate comes down to $1900/yr for gasoline.... so ill pay for itself in aprox 4yrs at the actual price of gasoline.... but we all know that 5yrs ago gasoline was $1.5-$2 so i dont really see it coming down anytime soon....

plus in the grand scheme of things you're keeping the emissions down to a minimum.... good info here: Electro Automotive: Frequently Asked Questions

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by awpitt

This wouldn't be a big problem as most charging would occur at night when power demand is lowest. Plus, charging batteries does not demand high current like AC units or blow dryers. It's low current.

...that. I envision charging outlets all over the place so that people can charge up while at the mall. Credit card operated perhaps. People in colder climes have engine block heaters and plug in's all over town. So, the point being that the charging would be spread out throughout the day.

[itsbob (Premo)]

Originally Posted by CountVlad

Doesn't the electric car just shift the pollution to the power plant?
No. It's much easier to clean up one large stationary smokestack than millions of tiny mobile ones. In fact, where power is generated primarily from hydro sources, EVs are 98%-99.9% cleaner than equivalent internal combustion vehicles. Even where power comes primarily from coal, EVs are 55%-92% cleaner, depending on which gasses you are measuring.

And by the way, if you want a fair comparison to gas cars, you really need to include the pollution from the oil refineries, tanker ships, and tanker trucks.

For more detailed information about EVs and pollution, see Debunking the Myth of EVs and Smokestacks and also the Tech Paper EV Myths.

Aren't the dead batteries a hazardous waste?
No. Batteries are 99% recyclable, and are one of the most highly recycled products in the country. When you buy a new battery, the dealer will ask for your old ones in trade, or you will be charged a "core charge" if you don't turn them in.

For more detailed information about EVs and pollution, see the Tech Paper EV Myths.

If we have a lot of EVs, won't we have to build a lot more power plants?
No. EVs are charged primarily overnight. This is perfect for electrical utilities, because this is the time when they have surplus capacity available. In fact, a large population of EVs would serve as a "load leveler", allowing the power plants to operate with less fluctuation between high peak demand and low off-peak demand, which would make them run more efficiently.

Isn't a lot of energy wasted in the inefficiency of the power transmission lines?
Yes, there is a high level of efficiency loss in power transmission. However, it is still less than the inefficiencies of the internal combustion engine. For example, take two barrels of oil in the ground. Take one and turn it into gas to run a car. Turn the other into electricity to run an EV. Out of the 100% total potential energy in the crude oil, only 11% is left to turn the wheels of the car. The rest is lost in inefficiencies of extraction, refining, delivery, and combustion. Out the 100% total potential energy in the other barrel, 17% is left to power the wheels of the EV. The overall system from well to wheel is much more efficient for EVs than for internal combustion vehicles.

Copy/Pasted from Electro Automotive: FAQ on Electric Car Efficiency & Pollution

i am thinking about installing a electric conversion kit in an S10.. ill probably cost me about $6000 plus another $1000 in batteries but i think ill pay itself off...

well lets do the math... in average an s10 gets about 25MPG... average american drives 12000miles a year(ill probably put less since its only going to be back and forth to work and few errands) ....

12000 miles/yr..... 25MGP comes down to aprox. take or give 500Gallons gasoline, at $3.8 since the gasoline price its going to fluctuate comes down to $1900/yr for gasoline.... so ill pay for itself in aprox 4yrs at the actual price of gasoline.... but we all know that 5yrs ago gasoline was $1.5-$2 so i dont really see it coming down anytime soon....

plus in the grand scheme of things you're keeping the emissions down to a minimum.... good info here: Electro Automotive: Frequently Asked Questions

Can you find a little less biased website to pull your information from?

Ethanol and corn were the solution 20 years ago, we see how well that's worked out.

[Pete (Premo)]

Originally Posted by itsbob

I'm speaking as to this being the "solution". replacing all gas powered vehicles with Volt-like vehicles.

Our power grid, as it is now, wouldn't be able to handle the extra load, more power plants would have to be built, and with the likes of the clamshell alliance still out there just beneath the surface we would have to rely mostly on coal. ANOTHER non-renewable resource.

Coal plants may be cleaner than they were 20 or 30 years ago, but they are far from being clean.. This is not a pollution free solution by any streatch, it just moves the pollution somewhere else.

The place(s) where these cars would sell the most, are the places with the worst electrical grids in the country. Like CA, where they sell the most Hybrids.

AND, how would we replace the lost tax revenue? Out of the $240 a month I pay for fuel, roughly $48 goes to taxes. Doesn't sound like a lot, but it adds up. Easiest solution, move the tax from gas to elctric. And of course along with the tax, electric prices will soar. What gas prices are doing now, electric will be doing in 15 years.

Our grid is just a grid, a delivery vehicle for the "distribution" of electricity and it already provides ample electricity during peak demand times, adding to the average daily delivery would not have that much impact. Perhaps in a peak demand scenario it might have problems but I am certain they could be overcome. So what if it needed to be beefed up a little

Power generation just might need to be boosted but as Awpitt said above, charging the AMP everyday would add $40 to his power bill a month. Hell that is about how much adding a hot tub to your house would up the cost.

So California has a shiatty grid so the whole country should give up on electric vehicles? I don't think the problem in California is the grid so much as a lack of power generation. Weren't they trying to buy power from other states? Too bad for them their lack of foresight does not equal to a crisis for everyone else.

As far as taxes so what? If they did move the tax straight over to electricity and your $48 in tax is tagged on your power bill now the charge per month to charge your car $40 AND the $48 in tax is $88 a month, a savings of $152 over your $240 fuel bill.

[Pete (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...that. I envision charging outlets all over the place so that people can charge up while at the mall. Credit card operated perhaps. People in colder climes have engine block heaters and plug in's all over town. So, the point being that the charging would be spread out throughout the day.

I was in Maine and I never recall ever seeing any outlets for public use to plug in block heaters anywhere.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Pete

Our grid is just a grid, a delivery vehicle for the "distribution" of electricity and it already provides ample electricity during peak demand times, adding to the average daily delivery would not have that much impact. Perhaps in a peak demand scenario it might have problems but I am certain they could be overcome. So what if it needed to be beefed up a little

Power generation just might need to be boosted but as Awpitt said above, charging the AMP everyday would add $40 to his power bill a month. Hell that is about how much adding a hot tub to your house would up the cost.

So California has a shiatty grid so the whole country should give up on electric vehicles? I don't think the problem in California is the grid so much as a lack of power generation. Weren't they trying to buy power from other states? Too bad for them their lack of foresight does not equal to a crisis for everyone else.

As far as taxes so what? If they did move the tax straight over to electricity and your $48 in tax is tagged on your power bill now the charge per month to charge your car $40 AND the $48 in tax is $88 a month, a savings of $152 over your $240 fuel bill.

...it, Pete, CA has an infrastructure problem, a capacity problem. Rolling blackouts and brown outs have nothing to do with price; they are capacity issues. CA got behind on generation plants and transmission lines, both of which have limits.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Pete

I was in Maine and I never recall ever seeing any outlets for public use to plug in block heaters anywhere.

...not cold in Maine.











Don't they have them in Minnesota and Alaska?

[kwillia]

SMECO has already given us notice they are predicting rolling blackouts within three years if the usage keeps increasing at the going rate... and this was BEFORE the talk of folks plugging in cars. Rolling blackouts

[itsbob (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...not cold in Maine.

Don't they have them in Minnesota and Alaska?

If it wasn't cold in ME and NH I'd still be there.

I don't care where you are, -10 , -20 is friggin COLD, and that's cold enough to kill ANY DieHard.

I missed an exit one day in Maine as I was heading for Brunswick.. You know how I noticed?


The trees got shorter.

[Pete (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...not cold in Maine.

Don't they have them in Minnesota and Alaska?

You haven't been in Maine in February

Been to Minnesota several times never noticed them there. Spent 8 months in Alaska and didn't see them there but I was in a remote area most of the time. In Anchorage they might have them but I didn't see them. If there were going to be any it would be Fairbanks. In Fairbanks we had them on base but I didn't get out in town much