Black National Anthem

[This_person]

Originally Posted by tiny_dancer33

UNCF was founded in the '40s. At the time, any other college fund in the country would have been a corresponding whites-only counterpart.

As for the Urban League, CBC, etc...well, can I ask why whites in the US would need (or need at any time in history) an organization devoted specifically to whites in those fields? Jews in government, sure. Irish in government. Catholics. Germans. Eastern Europeans. (Insert European ethnic group here that was at some point or another the target of discrimination or an underrepresented demographic in government or big business.) But I mean...having a White Congressional Caucus is like...a club of brunettes with one blonde member forming a brunette caucus. (I fail at analogies, don't judge me. :cry:)

I agree with you that some groups like these are no longer needed now as a lot of the issues they were created to combat are no longer a super large problem. But uh...at the time that most of these groups were formed, everything besides them was a corresponding white counterpart.

So, inequality was appropriate to gain equality?

Or, is it just crap?

[tiny_dancer33]

Originally Posted by This_person

So, inequality was appropriate to gain equality?

Or, is it just crap?

Uh...I fail to see how it was inequality in the 1940s, when blacks could not qualify for any existing scholarship funds or similar awards, and couldn't even attend colleges besides black ones, to create a college fund that they could benefit from.

[donbarzini]

Originally Posted by tiny_dancer33

UNCF was founded in the '40s. At the time, any other college fund in the country would have been a corresponding whites-only counterpart.

As for the Urban League, CBC, etc...well, can I ask why whites in the US would need (or need at any time in history) an organization devoted specifically to whites in those fields? Jews in government, sure. Irish in government. Catholics. Germans. Eastern Europeans. (Insert European ethnic group here that was at some point or another the target of discrimination or an underrepresented demographic in government or big business.) But I mean...having a White Congressional Caucus is like...a club of brunettes with one blonde member forming a brunette caucus. (I fail at analogies, don't judge me. )

I agree with you that some groups like these are no longer needed now as a lot of the issues they were created to combat are no longer a super large problem. But uh...at the time that most of these groups were formed, everything besides them was a corresponding white counterpart.

Can I avail myself of any services any of these organizations offer? Nope.

So they are the very things that they purport to rail against. Separatist organizations designed to benefit one class of people. What their purpose was when they were founded is inconsequential.

[tiny_dancer33]

Originally Posted by donbarzini

Can I avail myself of any services any of these organizations offer? Nope.

I'm assuming you're of European descent right? Actually, you can. A couple friends of mine, also white Americans, received scholarships (one for a college, another for an internship) after submitting essays on the topic of blacks and women in the physical sciences (well, one of them was, I didn't read the second essay personally) to different black scholarship funds (the winning one was a minorities in sciences group). You can...there's just not much point in it, I suppose, if the issues don't really affect you. Same reason I never applied for any scholarships about working in the medical field - because I don't work in medicine. But I could have if I wanted to.

[tiny_dancer33]

Originally Posted by donbarzini

What their purpose was when they were founded is inconsequential.

(Sorry, I missed this before posting again.) You asked for white counterparts. I said the idea was that when they were made everything else was a white counterpart. I fail to see how that's inconsequential. Similar groups have changed their missions over the years, of course. For example, from "let's get black Americans into big business" to "let's provide a support network for black Americans in big business, as they are still underrepresented in that field."

I mean, someone could certainly start a white Americans senatorial caucus, for example...but what would they have to do? "Yeah, the Senate...we're the majority in it. Yay for us." I mean, would you say that groups like the Midwestern congressional caucus are separatist as well?

[This_person]

Originally Posted by tiny_dancer33

Uh...I fail to see how it was inequality in the 1940s, when blacks could not qualify for any existing scholarship funds or similar awards, and couldn't even attend colleges besides black ones, to create a college fund that they could benefit from.

Were historically black colleges inferior? Lincoln and Howard were good enough to get a Supreme Court Justice!

And, the 40's have been over for a long, long, long time now. Would you agree and work towards abolishing such things as the UNCF, BET, CBC, NAACP, etc? Would you agree these are racist institutions that do NOTHING but make divisions among the races?

[donbarzini]

Originally Posted by tiny_dancer33

(Sorry, I missed this before posting again.) You asked for white counterparts. I said the idea was that when they were made everything else was a white counterpart. I fail to see how that's inconsequential. Similar groups have changed their missions over the years, of course. For example, from "let's get black Americans into big business" to "let's provide a support network for black Americans in big business, as they are still underrepresented in that field." That's all.

It is inconsequential because while their purpose may have been one of "forced inclusion" when they were created; that is their purpose no longer.
Is it?

[tiny_dancer33]

Originally Posted by This_person

Were historically black colleges inferior? Lincoln and Howard were good enough to get a Supreme Court Justice!

And, the 40's have been over for a long, long, long time now. Would you agree and work towards abolishing such things as the UNCF, BET, CBC, NAACP, etc? Would you agree these are racist institutions that do NOTHING but make divisions among the races?

Of course they weren't inferior. Therefore, doesn't it make sense for that time period, that if there's these colleges that black Americans could attend at the time, they should have a scholarship fund that they could actually have access to as well?

And judging from the other posts in this thread, I think it's safe to say that you and others would agree that the black race could still use some "advancement" (re: NAACP).

I'll repeat what I said above, would you say that the northeast or midwestern caucuses are separatist? Because I wouldn't. I'd say that they're a circle for senators/reps who have something in common - that they're from the midwest/etc.

[Baja28]

Originally Posted by tiny_dancer33

UNCF was founded in the '40s. At the time, any other college fund in the country would have been a corresponding whites-only counterpart.

As for the Urban League, CBC, etc...well, can I ask why whites in the US would need (or need at any time in history) an organization devoted specifically to whites in those fields? Jews in government, sure. Irish in government. Catholics. Germans. Eastern Europeans. (Insert European ethnic group here that was at some point or another the target of discrimination or an underrepresented demographic in government or big business.) But I mean...having a White Congressional Caucus is like...a club of brunettes with one blonde member forming a brunette caucus. (I fail at analogies, don't judge me. )

I agree with you that some groups like these are no longer needed now as a lot of the issues they were created to combat are no longer a super large problem. But uh...at the time that most of these groups were formed, everything besides them was a corresponding white counterpart.

Originally Posted by tiny_dancer33

Uh...I fail to see how it was inequality in the 1940s, when blacks could not qualify for any existing scholarship funds or similar awards, and couldn't even attend colleges besides black ones, to create a college fund that they could benefit from.

Originally Posted by tiny_dancer33

I'm assuming you're of European descent right? Actually, you can. A couple friends of mine, also white Americans, received scholarships (one for a college, another for an internship) after submitting essays on the topic of blacks and women in the physical sciences (well, one of them was, I didn't read the second essay personally) to different black scholarship funds (the winning one was a minorities in sciences group). You can...there's just not much point in it, I suppose, if the issues don't really affect you. Same reason I never applied for any scholarships about working in the medical field - because I don't work in medicine. But I could have if I wanted to.

Originally Posted by tiny_dancer33

(Sorry, I missed this before posting again.) You asked for white counterparts. I said the idea was that when they were made everything else was a white counterpart. I fail to see how that's inconsequential. Similar groups have changed their missions over the years, of course. For example, from "let's get black Americans into big business" to "let's provide a support network for black Americans in big business, as they are still underrepresented in that field."

I mean, someone could certainly start a white Americans senatorial caucus, for example...but what would they have to do? "Yeah, the Senate...we're the majority in it. Yay for us." I mean, would you say that groups like the Midwestern congressional caucus are separatist as well?

You've posted here in an intelligent manner and I respect you for that.



I don't mean to speak for everyone but I believe what we're all saying is those organizations had a time and place and now the time has come to do away with (insert race here)only groups and organizations and work as one.

The only way this will happen is if enough blacks rally together and denounce Al, Jesse, Louis et al every time they open their mouths. Bill Cosby has tried and look at the ridicule that got him from the black community.

I'm glad you agree this woman lost her mind by doing what she did.



P.S. I didn't mean to offend you with my anthem but I am sick of what she did and how she did it so I retaliated in my own humorous way.

[donbarzini]

Originally Posted by tiny_dancer33

Of course they weren't inferior. Therefore, doesn't it make sense for that time period, that if there's these colleges that black Americans could attend at the time, they should have a scholarship fund that they could actually have access to as well?

And judging from the other posts in this thread, I think it's safe to say that you and others would agree that the black race could still use some "advancement" (re: NAACP).

I'll repeat what I said above, would you say that the northeast or midwestern caucuses are separatist? Because I wouldn't. I'd say that they're a circle for senators/reps who have something in common - that they're from the midwest/etc.

No the caucuses from the NE or Midwest aren't separatist, because THEY don't discriminate based on the color of one's skin. And how much more "advancement" does the black race need? It was a black man who came from the proverbial "nowhere" to defeat the Democratic Party's
anointed one. And the Republicans were making legitimate noise about both Powell and Rice as "Presidential Timber".