Update on the war against "Al-Qaida"

[Lenny]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...you can. You can retaliate against the things he believes in. You can let it be known that an act of war against you will result in war against them. You can threaten their faith, their shrines, their temples, their homes, their towns, their people with death and destruction if that is what they wish to bring to you. You can make it their choice.

The problem is that this is what we have done to them for two generations now; threaten and attack their faith, their way of life, their families, all of it. We have a profoundly ugly way of looking at this as though that is all they are; homicidal maniacs that just woke up one day and decided to kill innocents.

Note from the response I get from this post how unwilling we are to even consider just what it is that drives them to such desperation let alone address it.

Or you could take the Klintonian tack and do nothing. OK, you could lob a cruise missile into the mountains.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Lenny

Or you could take the Klintonian tack and do nothing. OK, you could lob a cruise missile into the mountains.

...say we are their enemy because we support corrupt regimes that rule them. We do. They say it is a sacrilege and offense to their faith when we have armies in their lands. They say we are corrupt and decadent and that we export these things to their lands and people through our economic power.

Now, are we right to do this things anyway? Are there any rules that we should abide? Or, is this a simple matter of whatever we do is right and anyone who doesn't think so is wrong?

BTW, Clinton did fail to get bin Laden. He just didn't need to invade two nations absorb 35,000 KIA and WIA and spend a trillion dollars to do it.

[Lenny]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...say we are their enemy because we support corrupt regimes that rule them. We do. They say it is a sacrilege and offense to their faith when we have armies in their lands. They say we are corrupt and decadent and that we export these things to their lands and people through our economic power.

Now, are we right to do this things anyway? Are there any rules that we should abide? Or, is this a simple matter of whatever we do is right and anyone who doesn't think so is wrong?

BTW, Clinton did fail to get bin Laden. He just didn't need to invade two nations absorb 35,000 KIA and WIA and spend a trillion dollars to do it.

What Went Wrong? by Bernard Lewis

The Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright

It might come in useful for you.

[This_person]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...you can. You can retaliate against the things he believes in. You can let it be known that an act of war against you will result in war against them. You can threaten their faith, their shrines, their temples, their homes, their towns, their people with death and destruction if that is what they wish to bring to you. You can make it their choice.

Larry, don't you think this is what they perceive we've already done, and thus made it their choice to kill themselves and others in what they perceive is retaliation back?

In this post, you say our choice is to let it be known we will kill all those who attempt to kill us, thus making their death their choice. But, in your next post, you claim that's already been done, and that they hate us for good reasons.

What we may export is our choice. What they import is their choice. They hate the messanger because they choose the message? I don't buy it as a realistic, acceptable argument.

The problem is that this is what we have done to them for two generations now; threaten and attack their faith, their way of life, their families, all of it.

By living our own lives as we see fit? I mean, how do we attack their faith, their way of life?

We have a profoundly ugly way of looking at this as though that is all they are; homicidal maniacs that just woke up one day and decided to kill innocents.

I don't think most people think they just woke up this way one day. I think we realize that they perceive they're defending themselves. The problem is, we DO think they're attacking INNOCENTS, not someone who is actually attacking them first.

My perception is that we do nothing to hurt these people that they don't ask for and take willingly. It's like someone buying drugs and then blaming the drug dealer for the product they bought themselves. Our religious ideals, freedoms, etc., may be intoxicating and lucrative, but they're the purchaser. They don't take the product, they don't have a problem.

Note from the response I get from this post how unwilling we are to even consider just what it is that drives them to such desperation let alone address it.

How would you address it?

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Has anyone besides me read bin Laden's declaration of war against us?

How do you ever defeat an enemy if you don't even know their motivation?

[Lenny]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

Has anyone besides me read bin Laden's declaration of war against us?

How do you ever defeat an enemy if you don't even know their motivation?

Why, yes. Yes I have (in an English translation, that is)


But you can put as much credence in his "justification" as you can an NObama speech. Read The Looming Tower

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Lenny

Why, yes. Yes I have (in an English translation, that is)

...me, too.

[cwo_ghwebb]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...you can. You can retaliate against the things he believes in. You can let it be known that an act of war against you will result in war against them. You can threaten their faith, their shrines, their temples, their homes, their towns, their people with death and destruction if that is what they wish to bring to you. You can make it their choice.

There was a time when countries knew, if they attacked the United States, there would be retaliation. We were attacked repeatedly, but the administration in power decided to treat the attacks as a police matter. Folks just got more bold, as there wasn't much on their part, to lose. 9/11 was the result.

The problem is that this is what we have done to them for two generations now; threaten and attack their faith, their way of life, their families, all of it. We have a profoundly ugly way of looking at this as though that is all they are; homicidal maniacs that just woke up one day and decided to kill innocents.

Much of that is a result of their wishes to wipe Israel off the map. Israel fought two wars started by Arabs and kicked their butts at a great loss of Israeli lives. The conflict has been going on for years and WE DIDN'T START IT. Our country has supported Israel's right to exist, and that's enough in the Arab world to condemn us. When youngsters are taught to hate from the day they're born, doesn't matter much what the parent's motivation to me. They attack, we retaliate, until they finally get the message. And if they don't, they cease to exist in the world's productive societies.

Note from the response I get from this post how unwilling we are to even consider just what it is that drives them to such desperation let alone address it.

They've told us what drives them to such desperation. Just listen to them. But from my perspective, NO THANK YOU! I don't want my family and I to live under Sharia law, and their lack of tolerance for other faiths says all I need to hear. Live and let live. You attack me or mine, there will be hell to pay.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by This_person

How would you address it?

...mind our own business. We don't belong in Afghanistan. We don't belong in Iraq. We trade with people who are willing to trade with us and we deal with them based on that. I would like to think that I would not have an energy policy that is predicated on dependence.

[cwo_ghwebb]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

Has anyone besides me read bin Laden's declaration of war against us?

How do you ever defeat an enemy if you don't even know their motivation?

Their motivation is not relevant. They can state their reasons for being your enemy all they want.

If someone takes a swing at me because I insulted his family, does it really matter when I take him out?

If someone takes a swing at me because he doesn't like my clothing, does it really matter when I take him out?

If someone takes a swing at me and I don't have a clue why, does it really matter when I take him out?

All that does matter is that I protected myself and took the dumb azz out.