$730,000,000,000

[awpitt (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...please. He told me today, on my TV, that he'd let me in on it over the coming weeks.

You an insider or sumpin'?

PickensPlan





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[awpitt (Premo)]

http://www.pickensplan.com/theplan/




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[MMDad (Premo)]

Originally Posted by kwillia

I still cannot grasp why we allow speculation on futures and the speculators that are driving up the futures prices are the very same ones profitting from the future speculations. Why is this legal...

You know something, the press has been touting "speculators" as the problem, but are they really? Do we really think that a few investors in the US are driving the price of a worldwide commodity?

It's a very US-centric view of a worldwide problem. Suppose we stop US speculators from investing in the market. Who is hurt? The pension plans that own the futures. (Me and you, sweetie.)

Who does it help? Nobody, because there are still plenty of investors in the rest of the world who are just as willing to prop up the prices. We do not have control over them.

Will it make prices fall? No.

[Bann (Premo)]

I saw the Pickens commercial tonight - the one where he says he's going to tell us more soon. He did say something about drilling (only?) won't get us out of this. I'll have to go check out that link.

I've seen so much back & forth about it's the supply & demand, it's the speculators, it's the corn on the cob. No wait, that's not right. I swear there's an opinion a day on it.

Just drill dammit!

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by kwillia

I still cannot grasp why we allow speculation on futures and the speculators that are driving up the futures prices are the very same ones profitting from the future speculations. Why is this legal...

...motive is the primary purpose and I'm OK with that for the most part.

The thing is, oil is not a commodity anymore. It is not perishable. It is not subject to bad seasons, wind, hail, locust or otherwise. It is a fully mature and protected industry and it is also a monopoly.

You can do without pig bellies or orange juice or Wheaties or find very suitable substitutes given a crop problem.

The speculation in commodities is there for people in the various business's to hedge their costs over time given their market expertise and experience. There were financial penalties for those outside the business, retirement funds, pure speculators and so forth, who had to pay higher margins (more money down) and higher capital gains. This started in the 1920's, the Grain Act, to keep the highs and lows driven by pure speculation in control.

The law was changed in 2000 and it's taken 7 years to be fully exploited.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by MMDad

You know something, the press has been touting "speculators" as the problem, but are they really? Do we really think that a few investors in the US are driving the price of a worldwide commodity?

It's a very US-centric view of a worldwide problem. Suppose we stop US speculators from investing in the market. Who is hurt? The pension plans that own the futures. (Me and you, sweetie.)

Who does it help? Nobody, because there are still plenty of investors in the rest of the world who are just as willing to prop up the prices. We do not have control over them.

Will it make prices fall? No.

...is responsible for 1/3 the cost of a barrel of oil.

If you think that isn't hurting pension plans and you and me, think again. Your plan give you $2,400 a year gain for nothing? Tax free?

[This_person]

Originally Posted by awpitt

PickensPlan: The Plan

Thanks for the link.

The natural gas component makes sense from the point of view of cars, but not electricity. Natural gas plants are ususally "peakers", started up and used only when demand is highest. Using natural gas to also run a large portion of cars is a fairly inexpensive conversion kit, and the fueling stations would not be hard to create as there is already a natural gas infrastructure in the country.

For the short term, coal plants are relatively quick to build, and we have incredible natural resources. But, nuclear is far cleaner and better overall. It just takes longer to build.

The wind component just doesn't make sense to me, though. Unreliable, inefficient, enormous land waste, etc., etc.

I was hoping he had a realistic plan. When he ends the video with "we need the right leadership, and we need people to cooperate", he lost me in thinking his plan was implementable.

[MMDad (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...is responsible for 1/3 the cost of a barrel of oil.

Is it? Congress "investigated" and found no evidence of improper practices. Do you have something to share?

I still believe it is supply and demand. We demand it, we're willing to pay the price, and we pay it. We've reduced our demand in the US, but China scoops that up and keeps demand right where it was.

There are only two solutions to this: reduce global demand, or get out of the global market.

Speculators are a distraction that really has nothing to do with the problem. It's a lot easier to blame some nameless "speculators" than it is to blame ourselves for our excessive consumption and unwillingness to use alternatives.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by This_person

The wind component just doesn't make sense to me, though. Unreliable, inefficient, enormous land waste, etc., etc.

...you. Wind is pretty much a joke. What makes it worse is that it is real big with people who swear the climate is changing. If so, why would you invest in something dependent on a stable, predictable climate? Hell, the wind could lessen. It could become too strong.

[awpitt (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Bann

I saw the Pickens commercial tonight - the one where he says he's going to tell us more soon. He did say something about drilling (only?) won't get us out of this. I'll have to go check out that link.

I've seen so much back & forth about it's the supply & demand, it's the speculators, it's the corn on the cob. No wait, that's not right. I swear there's an opinion a day on it.

Just drill dammit!

If you watch the video on the Pickens homepage, he does a real basic explainantion of his plan. He was on CNN this morning. He doesn't say we shouldn't drill but he does say that drilling is not going to fix the problem, it is only part of the solution. One thing he pointed out is that even if we open ANWR it's production is limited by the capacity of the Alaska pipeline.