Police Ticket Quotas? Good or Bad

[donbarzini]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...see the first couple, but, a mime? That's a terrible thing to waste.

Even Marcel Marceau groaned at that one

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by donbarzini

Even Marcel Marceau groaned at that one

...'groan' French for 'gesture'?

[itsbob (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...'groan' French for 'gesture'?

Paw Yu Say is french for stop..

[This_person]

Originally Posted by foodcritic

I wrote this in another thread and thougth it was worth it's own discussion...


I luv when the public complains about "Quotas" when it come to tickets. As police officers are jobs consist of handling call for service and traffic enforcement. How does the public "QUANTIFY" what it is that is done by the police if tickets are not written and reports are not generated ????

Since a budget is involved and people are getting paid, the public wants to see the value of their dollar. That usually means people are going to get locked up and tickets will be written!

The reality is is that there is a quota... ssshhhh don't say it loud. Police dep. are driven by statistics ( good or bad). Statistics drive departmental needs and budgets and the tax payers want to see the money used effectively.

Again this is measured in OUTPUT. (citations/arrests/reports)

Simple freemarket concept applied to (correctly I might add) goverment workers. That's the value of the dollar.

Let's not Pooo pooo the "Q" word it's not officially written in anything but it is needed for the taxpayers to get the best value for the tax dollar.

I see two potential problems:

1. Once an officer meets a "quota", he/she would have little incentive to continue to enforce the laws.

2. If nearing the end of a "quota" period and not at quota, an officer could easily find fault where there actually was no fault, just to meet the quota.

Both of these issues lead to widely variable enforcement of laws.

IMO, keeping track of the percent of tickets/citations that lead to convictions would make more sense. This would lead to an officer having his/her ducks in a row before issuing citations, and tell the public that the officer is doing his/her job well, not just often.

[foodcritic]

Originally Posted by This_person

I see two potential problems:

1. Once an officer meets a "quota", he/she would have little incentive to continue to enforce the laws.

2. If nearing the end of a "quota" period and not at quota, an officer could easily find fault where there actually was no fault, just to meet the quota.

Both of these issues lead to widely variable enforcement of laws.

IMO, keeping track of the percent of tickets/citations that lead to convictions would make more sense. This would lead to an officer having his/her ducks in a row before issuing citations, and tell the public that the officer is doing his/her job well, not just often.

I suppose 1 is a valid concern. But what about the comparisons that would go on between shifts or officers even with out "Q". Why some "produce" more than others. Lots of factors in that.

Why is one shift more productive than another? The answer is complicated.

I like the idea of tracking the % of convictions. But that won't answer the critic that got a speeding ticket for going 8 mph over when last week it was OK.

Again, I think this gets down to the value of the dollar and what the tax payer is getting for it and how we judge the effectivness of the police dept.

[foodcritic]

Originally Posted by AndyMarquisLIVE

I'd like to see the County get more of that money.

The police is part of the County!!!

[sommpd]

Originally Posted by foodcritic

I wrote this in another thread and thougth it was worth it's own discussion...


I luv when the public complains about "Quotas" when it come to tickets. As police officers are jobs consist of handling call for service and traffic enforcement. How does the public "QUANTIFY" what it is that is done by the police if tickets are not written and reports are not generated ????

Since a budget is involved and people are getting paid, the public wants to see the value of their dollar. That usually means people are going to get locked up and tickets will be written!

The reality is is that there is a quota... ssshhhh don't say it loud. Police dep. are driven by statistics ( good or bad). Statistics drive departmental needs and budgets and the tax payers want to see the money used effectively.

Again this is measured in OUTPUT. (citations/arrests/reports)

Simple freemarket concept applied to (correctly I might add) goverment workers. That's the value of the dollar.

Let's not Pooo pooo the "Q" word it's not officially written in anything but it is needed for the taxpayers to get the best value for the tax dollar.

Police ticket quota's are bad! Using statistical data to measure an employee's worth is the sign of poor supervison. A supervisor should be able to judge an employee's performance based on the quality of work the employee does, and in police traffic on the radio.

I don't think we should ever take discretion away from the officer on the street by demanding they produce tickets from our citizenry!

[foodcritic]

Originally Posted by sommpd

Police ticket quota's are bad! Using statistical data to measure an employee's worth is the sign of poor supervison. A supervisor should be able to judge an employee's performance based on the quality of work the employee does, and in police traffic on the radio.

I don't think we should ever take discretion away from the officer on the street by demanding they produce tickets from our citizenry!

First I never mentioned the word discretion that was already assumed by me to be a factor in policing. So I take that off the table.

Using statisical data probably drives most employees regardless of industry. If "all things being equal" you have an employee that handles more volume and does quality work. What do we do with the "low" volume quality guy?

The point here is that the tax payers have a right to their money being used as effectively as possible. Since I have worked both in the private sector and as a goverment employee I have seen the diffrence in work ethic and what constitutes "quality". Needless to say goverment employees tend to lag behind in both catagories.

[glhs837]

I have no problem with statistics being used to measure performance. What I take issue with is the use of whats easy to enforce, vice whats best for safety, to get those numbers. Show me 20 citations for unsafe driving, failure to yield, unsafe passing, unsafe lane changes, passing on the right, driving with unrestrained children, against 40 speeding tickets.

I, and I believe most folks, would be much happier to see the smaller number.
I know the trooper on patrol is told, go run radar 0900 Sat morning on 235 south of San Souci, and has no choice in that. The upper management, in search of those numbers, gets'em easy.

Take Calvert. Almost all of the fatalities in the past couple years, the headline grabbers, are people entering the roadway in such a manner that the oncoming has no chance to avoid, speeding or not. But, what action have they taken? Saturation radar of people going straight ahead, not going after idiots who enter the roadway unsafely.

[Hessian]

What does it say about a teacher who has a policy that 20 tardies, 20 unprepareds and 10 disruptions will be recorded every month?

Either that have lousy classroom management (but good record keeping).
Or they are so eager to record violations ...that the kids fear/despise him/her.

No matter what: it is fundamentally irrational ...and the kids despise the class (even the nerds).

This is no way to run a classroom: and the principle is the same for a county.
Why do the police struggle with public image issues? They are perceived as
capricious, numbers-driven, manipulators.

Oh, they are trained well to be courteous (blunt, but courteous) but I have found handwriting to be terrible, and generally they seem void of human qualities....perhaps this is a way they deal with all the general human debris they face daily.