WaveRunner trespasser didn't deserve to die, Miami

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by mike504

I didnt ignore your last response.. just trying to figure out how you quote and writne a response right in the Quote.. Thats neat.. i am new to this forum.. sorry for my ignorace..LOL

Within the quoted part, click at the end of the segment you wish to comment on and then click up on that black 'A' above and select a color of your choice. You can then type where you like in a different color for the contrast.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by mike504

I didnt bring that class up as a punishment.. i brought it up as way to help people keep them selves out of trouble... I read a lot of responses on this sight and think wow if you really do that or think that way.. You could possible get your self in trouble.. simply because you didnt know... Not suggesting letting criminals do crime or go free.. Just saying.. you should know the rules..

I agree with the above. I simply think more burden belongs on the criminal and less on the victim. Way less.

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by mike504

they do its called the law.. on both sides.. if they break it.. they get punished if you break it the same happens...

Do you agree that laws are stacked in favor of those who disregard them? Or do you feel that criminals obey the law just as faithfully as regular people?

[mike504]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

Then you entirely missed the point or simply don't agree.


A woman got off yesterday for killing her child and lying about it. Should the baby have done something different to avoid it's fate?

OJ murdered two people and got away with it. Should the victims have done something different to avoid their fate?

DC has a homicide conviction of, what, 60%? If someone steals your car radio, don't even bother calling. They ain't coming. There are an awful lot of victims out there. Maybe someone isn't getting the word to not commit crimes? Or, maybe, just maybe, the sanction isn't strong enough?

People get away with crime all the time and you know that. Our system is built on a bias in favor of the accused and you know that. People who were victimized by a criminal are then subject to sanction by the state for objecting more strenuously than the state thinks is appropriate.

We are talking of training FOR THE VICTIMS in order for them to function better when THEY are victimized. We speak of the victim not having thought clearly enough or over reacting or using force that a typical person may not think OK. Yet, do we, really, place anywhere near the same responsibility on the criminals?

No, and, you know that. I don't think that is funny. Excuse my vehemence. It is the definition of injustice that if I break into your home, steal your stuff and, in a moment of terror, you catch me and kill me that you should face ANY more peril or inconvenience than needing new carpet. Which my estate should have to pay for. Or, my 'grieving' parents when they get done soothing their guilt to the media.

Well your response is making my point exactly.. by going to some extreme example that obviously has nothing to do with my point... it's ridiculous to try to make the connection...

Somehow you turned my onion that if people were educated on the laws about using deadly force.. that maybe they could in some obvious situations where it was not legal to use deadly force they could avoid getting themselves into trouble..

How does that have any connection to blaming victims of murder for their own death.. Who's arguing that.?? That’s just silly...

And a lot of the other examples you use are stuff I don’t disagree with.. I don’t remember saying that if someone breaks into your house that you should not defend your self...

The story was about someone outside the house shot in the back of the head... That’s a different situation then someone breaking into your home..

My idea was not to punish these people.. but to give them the information they needed before this happened..

[mike504]

Originally Posted by vraiblonde

Do you agree that laws are stacked in favor of those who disregard them? Or do you feel that criminals obey the law just as faithfully as regular people?

No... i dont.. i think there are laws on the books that give due process and anger a lot of people becasue sometimes they just dont do the job the were meant to...

over all i think most laws are in favor of people who obey the law.. not those who break it..

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by mike504

I don’t remember saying that if someone breaks into your house that you should not defend your self...

Maryland does!!!!!!!!!

Maryland law REQUIRES you to retreat if at all possible and you can't shoot me unless you feel in imminent threat of serious harm or death AND can not get away. In your own home.

I can just grab your stuff, walk to my truck, come back, punch you in the face, get some more stuff and go about my merry way. If you shoot me, even after I punched you, if it can be shown that I meant no more harm than to get you out of my way, your ass could go to jail.

That is the law.

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by mike504

My idea was not to punish these people.. but to give them the information they needed before this happened..

I think this is where the disagreement lies - you're arguing what *is* vs. what *should be*. So we're probably all on the same page, give or take, after all.

[mike504]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

Within the quoted part, click at the end of the segment you wish to comment on and then click up on that black 'A' above and select a color of your choice. You can then type where you like in a different color for the contrast.

The part that was throwing me.. was cause you wrote with in my quoted stuff.. and i wanted to requote in the same area.. but it does not come up it just said quoted stuff.. if that makes any sense..

That part you wrote in red.. i wanted to respond right under it but couldnt figure out how..

I want to respond to that one.. but its so much..LOL i will have to end up doing home work to respond to that..

[mike504]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

Maryland does!!!!!!!!!

Maryland law REQUIRES you to retreat if at all possible and you can't shoot me unless you feel in imminent threat of serious harm or death AND can not get away. In your own home.

I can just grab your stuff, walk to my truck, come back, punch you in the face, get some more stuff and go about my merry way. If you shoot me, even after I punched you, if it can be shown that I meant no more harm than to get you out of my way, your ass could go to jail.

That is the law.

Thats exactly it... If you know how it works... in your little senario.. if you just have to shoot the guy... do it when he is approching you to punch you...
at least that looks some what better then shooting the guy in the back... i will have to read the md.. Law to really know but that would seem to me at least somewhat defendable in court...


But in real life... most likely the person would run... as soon as a light came on... if not he would run when you came out with a gun in your hand.. or if you told him you had a gun and have already called the cops...and if he didnt
and rushed you or somthing..i think you might make it thru the court system.. ok if you defended your self in that situation ... If you do that you risk him having a gun and shooting at you.. in which case claiming self defense would be eaiser then say... shooting him in the head from an upstairs window..LOL i read a story like that once.. that guy got procecuted too..

[Pushrod]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

Wouldn't it be easier and more effective if we taught that it is wrong to rob, rape, steal, attack? Maybe there should be classes in that? I don't recall any. If we say 'you learn that at home' then shouldn't we also say 'you learn how to react to crime at home'?

I agree with your point but, again, I object to the state placing ANY onus on the victim and so very, very little on the criminal.

No, the criminal should suffer whatever consequences of his actions with no repercussions to his victim.

The firearms training is just to help firearms owners be safer with their tools and in cases of confronting a bad guy, have the muscle memory from training to pul the weapon and put the projectile center mass.