WaveRunner trespasser didn't deserve to die, Miami

[otter]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

OK, but, think about this! Assume you catch someone in the act of robbing you, taking your wave runner or car or lawn chair or anything that is yours ON your property. How is it that you KNOW that ALL they are trying to do is take your stuff to sell for a few bucks and mean you NO harm? How is it that you KNOW that, once they take your stuff, they'll never be back, never tell their criminal pals about how easy it was taking your stuff, never decide to get a little bolder and enter your garage or home? How do you KNOW they won't think 'Hmm, maybe a little rape sounds good?" Or murder?

How is it that there should be ANY weight of responsibility on YOU to take caution, to make snap judgments, to assume, in any way, shape or form, that someone who CHOSE to invade your property and TAKE your property is otherwise harmless?

A robbery is FAR more than the loss of some replaceable thing. It is the TAKING of your sense of security. It is having your home invaded, against your will, and the physical taking of all sorts of things well beyond a 'thing'. Peace of mind. Sanctity of your home, for you, for your spouse, your parents, kids, friends.

It is a simple fact of the matter that the crook CHOSE to do all of this, and more, depending on YOU, the individual, the VICTIM, with absolutely NO justification at all. None.

It can NOT matter what the criminal actually meant or didn't mean. It can't!! Once the intent of the criminal matters, then you, the victim, are now subordinated to THEM!!!

Think about that!

Justice demands that the moment someone chooses, CHOOSES to violate your property, invade your home, they have forfeited ANY rights whatsoever and the very LAST thing that should EVER happen is a victim then gets further victimized, by THEIR government no less, if they dare choose to STOP their assailant!!!! Think about that!!!

Just once, I'd like to see a judge say too bad, so sad to some of these civil suits involving criminals.

[Bean Machine]

Originally Posted by Lurk

Got robbed (B&E) twice in three weeks in one of the more 'diverse' areas of Omaha while in college. First time they got away with a firearm plus jewelry. Don't you know that had I been home the second time, I would just KNOW they brought the firearm with them?

Shoulda gone to UNL!

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by drivingdaisy

Jesus, Larry, take a breath.

Sorry! Just got a little excited is all! I think I may have pee'd the carpet.

[betty99]

Originally Posted by drivingdaisy

Jesus, Larry, take a breath. I didn't say people can't have a different opinion about it, but for me-not how I think I would handle a situation. I don't think I would feel like killing someone for taking my property. Yes, I would be mad and yes, I would want them to receive punishment, but the idea of killing someone is very serious to me. Your capital letters and extra exclamation points are not going to change my opinion, that I am allowed to have whether it is different than yours or not.

And justice doesn't demand anything. People have different ideas about what justice is which is why we have laws. My curiosity in this area was strictly related to a legal standpoint, not opinions. I wondered if the shooter was within his rights (legally) because my understanding of stand your ground laws is that you must be reasonably (whatever that exactly means) sure of imminent death or bodily harm. The article doesn't mention the thief having a weapon. And I wondered if this was happening outside and the family was inside if changes or effects whether they were in their rights?

This is the problem. Laws protect the rights of the criminals. The people who go about their day-to-day and try to do the right thing, and pay bills and work for their little corner of the planet are victimized by the criminal act and then the judicial system. The feeling of powerlessness and pointlessness can be a little overwhelming.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by drivingdaisy

My curiosity in this area was strictly related to a legal standpoint, not opinions. I wondered if the shooter was within his rights (legally) because my understanding of stand your ground laws is that you must be reasonably (whatever that exactly means) sure of imminent death or bodily harm. The article doesn't mention the thief having a weapon. And I wondered if this was happening outside and the family was inside if changes or effects whether they were in their rights?

In Maryland, this shooting would be totally illegal and it would turn into this big, ugly freak show as the parents weighed their criminal culpability and ruination if they claimed they did it in order to protect the 14 year old from prosecution with the likelihood that, if they let the kid take the rap, less would happen to the kid, legally.

In Maryland, you have NO right to your property.

Any and all of my vehemence relates directly to the frustration of the pseudo criminal state of our society where the criminal has ALL the rights and the victim is rather likely to end up in horrible trouble if they 'over' react in any way, shape or form. I mean, think about it; we are expecting the VICTIM to have 'thought about that' before they acted yet, the criminal, who premeditated this, who thought about it and then ACTED, violated the rights of an innocent, we don't tell them 'You should have thought about that!"???

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by drivingdaisy

I don't think I would feel like killing someone for taking my property.

I hope you never have to find out.

And again, it's not the taking of property that shakes you up so much. It's the absolute feeling of helplessness and vulnerability that gets you.

[bulldog (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Inkd

My house was broken into when I lived in Texas and it has to be one of the most sickening feelings ever.

Larry is exactly right too, you never know when they may coome back. I had some guns stolen when my house was broken into, the little fu**ker was caught but only the rifles were recovered. I used the insurance money to buy a safe and 9 days later, my house was hit again since the little bastard had told some friends in the neighborhood about the other guns he had seen in my closet.

What was the most sickening is that he told the cops that the reason he didnt take more stuff was because he heard someone in the shower so he ran. My female roomate was in the shower getting ready for work when he was in the house. I almost puked when I heard that.

I never went unarmed in Texas again from that day on. I carried illegaly until I was able to get my concealed handgun permit and carry legally. I will be very curious how this thing in Florida plays out. I sure as hell wish the best for the family and hope it goes well for them but I think they are in for a long hard haul.

Are you still in Texas? If not, without divulging your location, do you still carry? We assume that if you're in MD and carry, you don't have a permit.

[itsbob]

Originally Posted by drivingdaisy

Jesus, Larry, take a breath. I didn't say people can't have a different opinion about it, but for me-not how I think I would handle a situation. I don't think I would feel like killing someone for taking my property. Yes, I would be mad and yes, I would want them to receive punishment, but the idea of killing someone is very serious to me. Your capital letters and extra exclamation points are not going to change my opinion, that I am allowed to have whether it is different than yours or not.

And justice doesn't demand anything. People have different ideas about what justice is which is why we have laws. My curiosity in this area was strictly related to a legal standpoint, not opinions. I wondered if the shooter was within his rights (legally) because my understanding of stand your ground laws is that you must be reasonably (whatever that exactly means) sure of imminent death or bodily harm. The article doesn't mention the thief having a weapon. And I wondered if this was happening outside and the family was inside if changes or effects whether they were in their rights?

I think the assumption should be, if a criminal invades your property to steal from you, you can assume he is armed and is a threat.

Should a victim have to wait for him to pull the gun out of his pocket before he reacts? Or should you wait until you're stabbed and bleeding before you can fight back?

I think ALL assumptions should be given to the victim in this case. You're being robbed, assume the criminal is armed and act accordingly.

If they were in MD that 14 year old's life would be all but over. He would, more than likely be tried, and convicted as an adult, and sent to prison. At least in Fl he has a fighting chance of continuing his life.

[Inkd]

Originally Posted by bulldog

Are you still in Texas? If not, without divulging your location, do you still carry? We assume that if you're in MD and carry, you don't have a permit.

No, I live in SOMD now and no I do not carry any more. I live right down in the location where you shot that nice buck in bowseason this past year.

I was holding to the thought that as a military member with no past history of trouble, I had a TS clearance then, that if I had to defend myself in Texas I would be more likely to not be burned at the stake. Probably not true but it sounded good to me at the time.

In all actuality I was scared to death every morning that I would walk out of my garage and have my own stolen gun stuck in my belly and again figured that given the history of robberies and my being a productive member of society, I would not fare all that bad if I defended myself.

It was always my intention to get a CCW permit in Texas but as a non-resident I had to be in the state for 6 months, I think, before I could get one? I was only there for a few months when I got robbed. As soon as I had enough time in the state, I was at the first available class. I carried illegally for only a couple months, not proud that I did it but given the circumstances, I did.

My feelings are WAY different about Maryland though. I would be scared to death that even if I defended myself in my home against armed intruders, I would still be burned at the stake.

[drivingdaisy]

Originally Posted by vraiblonde

I hope you never have to find out.

And again, it's not the taking of property that shakes you up so much. It's the absolute feeling of helplessness and vulnerability that gets you.

I have never been face to face with the thief or robber-which would obviously be more traumatic, but I have had my wallet stolen out of my purse, a camera stolen out of a vehicle, and a an i-pod broken out of a vehicle. Also, none of these were in my home either, which is a little less traumatic, but the vehicles were either parked on the street in front of the house or in the driveway. I mostly find myself very annoyed and angry that people steal instead of getting a job which is what I have to do everyday whether I want to be there or not. Oh and once when I was little my dad's crazy ex girlfriend come to our house while we were out and stole our change jar. That was probably the most upsetting because I was 10 and it was our vacation money.