Nice to know ones enemy...

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Of course bin Laden wants to destroy Israel. He doesn't speak for all Arabs or all Muslims, although he certainly thinks so.

...you get it...

I've said before that the only possible solution to Israel/Palestine is for Israel to return to something resembling its pre-1967 borders, leaving the West Bank and Gaza for the Palestinians

...but you don't!!!

Remember Danny Pearls execution? Maybe you don't understand the depth of anti-semitism.

Israeli's look at Arabs as inferiors. Arabs look at Jews as the devil.

They want Israel...GONE.

A far a the DU goes, they are a religion unto themselves. To prove it, all you gott do is mention something outside of their sacrements and BLAMMO, you're a 'freeper' or some other idiot and just 'don't get it'.

[Hessian]

Religious tolerance is painted with bizarre colors from the Left.

The error comes from their horrible lack of understanding of religious history in America that has been taught since the 1960's.
Free Speech? Originated in england right?
No, it came from the congregational town meetings of New England.
Democracy: From Greece right? No, from the Rights offered to the Burgesses and evolving from the generation after Winthop (who did favor theocracy)
Religious Toleration? Not in England! Rather in Rhode Island in the 1630's and in Maryland by 1649.
Open debate of Ideas? Among the Dutch universities that came alive in the Reformation as they debated the tenets of Calvin, Arminius and Erasmus.
A desire for all believers to live in Harmony...not likely in the turmoil of England but we find it among the pillars that supported Penn's colony.

So, with diverse faiths, mixed cultures of Germans and Dutch and Scottish & Welsh, and yes even Jews (In New Amesterdam) and Hugenots (sp) stretching from the Carolinas to New England we were blessed to labor together and TOLERATE each other's beliefs.
So...please don't go into the "threat from the religious right" who want to install a theocracy, snoop into everyone's life like Nazi's, and demand censorship over everthing. It is such a bizarre viewpoint it reveals a lack of understanding regarding our pluralistic origins.

Islam? Well, that is a distinctly different story.

[Tonio]

Originally posted by Larry Gude
Remember Danny Pearls execution? Maybe you don't understand the depth of anti-semitism.

Israeli's look at Arabs as inferiors. Arabs look at Jews as the devil.

They want Israel...GONE.

I was trying to avoid generalizing about all Arabs and all Jews. If you're right that they hate each other that much, can the US at least convince them with military force to leave us the phuque alone, and fight their holy wars by themselves? Extremists on both sides have been using terrorism in the Holy Land since the 1920s. The Arab nations were somewhat friendly with us until we started being fervently pro-Israel around the time of the Yom Kippur War in 1973.

[Tonio]

Originally posted by Hessian
The error comes from their horrible lack of understanding of religious history in America that has been taught since the 1960's.
Free Speech? Originated in england right?
No, it came from the congregational town meetings of New England.
Democracy: From Greece right? No, from the Rights offered to the Burgesses and evolving from the generation after Winthop (who did favor theocracy)
Religious Toleration? Not in England! Rather in Rhode Island in the 1630's and in Maryland by 1649.
Open debate of Ideas? Among the Dutch universities that came alive in the Reformation as they debated the tenets of Calvin, Arminius and Erasmus.
A desire for all believers to live in Harmony...not likely in the turmoil of England but we find it among the pillars that supported Penn's colony.

So, with diverse faiths, mixed cultures of Germans and Dutch and Scottish & Welsh, and yes even Jews (In New Amesterdam) and Hugenots (sp) stretching from the Carolinas to New England we were blessed to labor together and TOLERATE each other's beliefs.

Some good stuff there. Thanks for mentioning Winthop's theocratic views. Some of his fellow Puritans also took over Maryland's colonial government for a brief time and attempted to stamp out Catholicism here.

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Tonio
The Arab nations were somewhat friendly with us until we started being fervently pro-Israel around the time of the Yom Kippur War in 1973.

I get incredibly tired of people trying to pretend that the US is somehow at fault for the bad blood between Israel and Arab nations. And I also find it tedious when people try to pretend the Israelis instigated anything.

Eqypt and Syria launched a surprise attack on Israel during Yom Kippur/Ramadan, which was a no no. The agreement was that both factions would refrain from warfare during these religious holidays. But nooooo......the Ay-rabs saw an opportunity to catch the Israelis with their guard down and they took it.

So if that was indeed when the US started favoring Israel, it's the Arabs own fault. The Palestinians bawl their eyes out to any lib nutball that will listen to them about how "all they want" is a return to pre-1967 border lines. We know this is crap because it was offered to them at the Camp David summit and Arafat gave them the finger and walked out.

So pizz on them. I hope Sharon gets Arafat, too.

[SuperGrover]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
I get incredibly tired of people trying to pretend that the US is somehow at fault for the bad blood between Israel and Arab nations. And I also find it tedious when people try to pretend the Israelis instigated anything.

Eqypt and Syria launched a surprise attack on Israel during Yom Kippur/Ramadan, which was a no no. The agreement was that both factions would refrain from warfare during these religious holidays. But nooooo......the Ay-rabs saw an opportunity to catch the Israelis with their guard down and they took it.

So if that was indeed when the US started favoring Israel, it's the Arabs own fault. The Palestinians bawl their eyes out to any lib nutball that will listen to them about how "all they want" is a return to pre-1967 border lines. We know this is crap because it was offered to them at the Camp David summit and Arafat gave them the finger and walked out.

So pizz on them. I hope Sharon gets Arafat, too.

OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AN ISSUE THAT I AGREE WITH VRAI ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HE|| MUST BE FROZEN NOW

[Tonio]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
I get incredibly tired of people trying to pretend that the US is somehow at fault for the bad blood between Israel and Arab nations. And I also find it tedious when people try to pretend the Israelis instigated anything.

Eqypt and Syria launched a surprise attack on Israel during Yom Kippur/Ramadan, which was a no no. The agreement was that both factions would refrain from warfare during these religious holidays. But nooooo......the Ay-rabs saw an opportunity to catch the Israelis with their guard down and they took it.

So if that was indeed when the US started favoring Israel, it's the Arabs own fault. The Palestinians bawl their eyes out to any lib nutball that will listen to them about how "all they want" is a return to pre-1967 border lines. We know this is crap because it was offered to them at the Camp David summit and Arafat gave them the finger and walked out.

So pizz on them. I hope Sharon gets Arafat, too.

Don't get me wrong--I wasn't blaming the US for the conflict. I was suggesting that we didn't show good judgment by trying to take sides in a holy war.

And certainly, Arafat has plenty of blood on his hands, and I wouldn't weep for his death. I suspect he turned down the Camp David proposals for purely self-serving reasons. An independent Palestine on the West Bank would mean the end of his own power as a terrorist leader, because he wouldn't have the Israeli rule over the Palestinians as an excuse to stir up hatred.

I say Israel should vacate the West Bank AND go after the terrorists with all guns blazing. This is a two-front war. Vacating the West Bank certainly won't end the terrorism. I say the current situation will only lead to even more terrorism, no matter how much force Israel uses. That's because the Palestinian population in Israel will soon outnumber the country's Jewish citizens. Does the name Custer mean anything to Ariel Sharon?

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Tonio
I was suggesting that we didn't show good judgment by trying to take sides in a holy war.

And I think the ONLY time we show good judgement with this situation is when we side wholeheartedly with Israel against the Palestinians.

There was a time when I thought Israel should back off a bit. The Camp David summit showed me that the Palestianians would NEVER accept ANY kind of peace agreement. So now I think we should align big time with the Israelis and smash the hostiles like they so richly deserve.

If you think any of the Arabs are interested in getting bin Laden, you're dreaming. They like having him do their dirty work so they can sit back and go "tut tut...well whad joo know aboud dat?"

[Tonio]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
If you think any of the Arabs are interested in getting bin Laden, you're dreaming. They like having him do their dirty work so they can sit back and go "tut tut...well whad joo know aboud dat?"

I'm not going to write off every Arab in the world as evil. That's what bin Laden wants the Arab world to believe, that the US is out to kill all Arabs. Phuque him. I don't want that murdering, hateful ambulatory piece of offal to be right about ANYTHING.

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Tonio
I'm not going to write off every Arab in the world as evil.

I don't believe the Arab citizens are evil at all - just their government and their brain-washing religious leaders. And, frankly, evil might not be a good word. They're just looking after their own interests, business as usual. It just so happens that their agenda doesn't coincide with ours and, while we're content to let them be, they're not content to let us be.