Hey, lets hear it for the unions....

[JoeRider]

Originally Posted by MarieB

Southwest is union

In terms of value add, I think Southwest sucks. They are my airline of last resort. I fly an average of twice a month for the last 20 years so I have a little experience here. Again, what has the union done to increase the value of the consumer experience?

The airlines are a great example of the quality of service decrease over the last 20 years that is heavily unionized. I remember flying on Midwest Express and getting London Broil and a glass of wine. So nice compared to having a bag of peanuts thrown at you and a loud mouth Airline attendant and a pilot that will not shut up.

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by JoeRider

Guess what, non-union companies the been offering heathcare, hiring disabled, providing pensions, hiring minorities, flexible work hours and supporting GLT polices way before the government or unions came in to play. Competitive Salaries are part of the equation. Unions do not create competition, they eliminate it.

Surprising, the legal system and liability attorneys play a bigger role in safety that the government at the workplace.

Here is an example of one company.


History of Diversity in IBM

1899: Hired women before women were given the right to vote
1914: Hired first person with a disability
1935 - 1953:
Recruited first professional women
Appointed first female vice president
Hired first black salesman
Introduced first written Equal Opportunity policy
1972 - 1996:
Helped to create Hispanic Leadership Fund
Added sexual orientation to nondiscrimination policy
Implemented domestic partner benefits
2001 - Present:
Extended IBM’s Global Work/Life Fund 2005 and 2007
Added "sexual orientation, gender identity or expressions” to global equal opportunity letter
Spearheaded People with Disabilities marketing initiative on accessibility
Initiated global Flexible Work Options for employees

I think IBM is an exception to the rule, Joe.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why there is/was need for liability lawyers. They don't come out of nowhere for no reason. Ok, well some might, but that's another exceptin to the rule.

I'm not pro-union anymore than I am anti-union; however, I do kind of think you guys could give a little credit where credit is due in this regard.

[JoeRider]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

I think IBM is an exception to the rule, Joe.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why there is/was need for liability lawyers. They don't come out of nowhere for no reason. Ok, well some might, but that's another exceptin to the rule.

I'm not pro-union anymore than I am anti-union; however, I do kind of think you guys could give a little credit where credit is due in this regard.

I give credit to unions for having a time and place in improving the working environment in the 1st half of the last century, but their time has passed. I do believe that government has a role in business operations, but things are so over regulated and out of control, the model has to change. I give the union no credit for anything in the last 40 years and in fact blame the union for contributing to the demise of the business environment.

As for IBM, Ford and Standard Oil are two other companies that took care of their workers. There is a lot more out there and many of the small business group do too. About the only area that I can think of that has continually screwed their workers is the financial areas (banks, stock brokers..etc). They seem to screw everyone.

I am still reading up on banking history and the Carriage and the Mellons, but I will get back on you about how they were screwing the worker.

I am anti-union based on my experience. I know there are some positives out there about them, but in the big picture of things, I see very little value to them. Tell me how the union is making my life better?

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by JoeRider

I give credit to unions for having a time and place in improving the working environment in the 1st half of the last century, but their time has passed. I do believe that government has a role in business operations, but things are so over regulated and out of control, the model has to change. I give the union no credit for anything in the last 40 years and in fact blame the union for contributing to the demise of the business environment.

As for IBM, Ford and Standard Oil are two other companies that took care of their workers. There is a lot more out there and many of the small business group do too. About the only area that I can think of that has continually screwed their workers is the financial areas (banks, stock brokers..etc). They seem to screw everyone.

I am still reading up on banking history and the Carriage and the Mellons, but I will get back on you about how they were screwing the worker.

I am anti-union based on my experience. I know there are some positives out there about them, but in the big picture of things, I see very little value to them. Tell me how the union is making my life better?

Ok, so you do give unions credit where credit is due. That's all I ask.

[Gilligan (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

IPerhaps you should ask yourself why there is/was need for liability lawyers. :
.

Because a pool of vastly too many lawyers has to find something to feed on? Hint: answer is "yes"

Google how many lawyers we have, per capita, than every other developed country in the entire world.

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by Gilligan

Because a pool of vastly too many lawyers has to find something to feed on? Hint: answer is "yes"

Google how many lawyers we have, per capita, than every other developed country in the entire world.

There was no question for you to answer. And, that may be (lawyers per capita), but as I said, they exist for a reason.

Here's my quote in full.

Originally Posted by Radiant1

Perhaps you should ask yourself why there is/was need for liability lawyers. They don't come out of nowhere for no reason. Ok, well some might, but that's another exceptin to the rule.

[Gilligan (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

There was no question for you to answer. And, that may be (lawyers per capita), but as I said, they exist for a reason.

Here's my quote in full.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why there is/was need for liability lawyers. :

Because a pool of vastly too many lawyers has to find something to feed on? Hint: answer is "yes"

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by Gilligan

Perhaps you should ask yourself why there is/was need for liability lawyers. :

Oh, you're right, there was a question!

[cwo_ghwebb]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

Oh, you're right, there was a question!

And one you still haven't answered.

I'm kinda intrigued by this discussion. I'm rather anti-lawyer at heart. They seem to prey on class action suits in which the plaintiffs get $2.00 and they get $2million.

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by cwo_ghwebb

And one you still haven't answered.

I'm kinda intrigued by this discussion. I'm rather anti-lawyer at heart. They seem to prey on class action suits in which the plaintiffs get $2.00 and they get $2million.

I posed the question; however, if you want me to answer my own question and even add to it...

Liability lawyers exist because corporations don't always look out for their employees or even their consumers for that matter. It's the nature of business to make money. Sometimes that nature involves taking care of employees and consumers, and sometimes it doesn't. Heck, we even have an entire consumer protection agency. What does that tell you?

And you're right. Litigation has run rampant these days and there are some crooked lawyers. I'm certainly not denying that. But it's up to judges and juries to slap that stupid crap down. As I said twice before, there's a REASON the lawyers even exist to begin with. And, need I mention the hot-shot corporate lawyers on corporate payroll? They exist for a reason too.

You all can hide your head in the sand if you want and blame unions for every ill that exists in the business world and the economy at large, but the reality is that although they contribute, they are not the scapegoat you tend to use them as.