KS supports MD suit opposing CCW regs

[edinsomd]

Originally Posted by So_what

You're so friggin' smart, do some real research and see if you can figure it out. Or ask your buddy time the sheriff

He's ignored at least two offers to find out for himself, up close and personal.

[glhs837]

Originally Posted by letmetellyou

I'm not saying it's a horrible idea, I just like it the way it is, or I like open carry. I think you are giving criminals way too much credit as you are ccw want a be's.

I don't believe there is any real change anywhere there is concealed carry or not. Therefore I don't buy that argument. I also don't buy the argument that it is a violation of the second amendment not to issue ccw's.

May I ask if you are allowed by your job to carry?

About that second sentence, it's very hard for one person to draw an accurate judgment about such a wide ranging thing. Looking for stats outside of Lotts book, seems it's all very wishywashy.

Fact Check: Do concealed weapons lower crime rates? :: WRAL.com

this one points out that there was a drop in NC crime rates, but that there were drops in non-cc states like MA as well. I do note with interest that they dont do the obvious thing and actually compare those drops, to see if one had a larger drop than the other. I suspect that the MA drop was less, but will research that tomorrow.

Concealed carry laws: Plenty of data to back up both sides - Springfield, IL - The State Journal-Register

this one says any benfit is hard to judge, to many variables to accurately say. I don note the on recurring theme, though, which is that the police agencies in interviewed in affected states all say they haven't had any additional problems due to it. Given that, the default position, seems to me, should be towards more freedom for citizens to do as they please. Govt should only restrict rights as needed to protect public safety, barring any evidence that these laws make the public less safe, it should default to allowance. I think too many in law enforcement have followed the sheep/wolf thing too far, and fail to remember that standing up for right isn't only for those sworn to the badge, but all citizens. Some of would prefer for our only option to not be "cower in fear and throw your wallet at them", like that DC politician recommended. Me, given where I live and my low risk exposure, I would not likely carry, but having the option would be nice were I to go risky areas.


Ward 3 Public Safety Meeting - YouTube


In closing, I'll leave you with this.......

http://www.chicagonow.com/i-hate-my-...ch-a-bad-idea/

[letmetellyou]

Originally Posted by glhs837

May I ask if you are allowed by your job to carry?

No. I stated in this post that I like Maryland's laws the way they are. Of course, like every thread, it didn't really stay on topic and moved of course several times.

With the exception of commercial businesses, most people who don't have some connection to criminals are not likely to be victim's of crime unless they venture into high crime areas.

The entire city of Baltimore, Chicago, New York, etc...are not high crime areas.

It is my opinion, that if we were a shall issue state, I would have just as much chance as being shot by one of these yahoo's who lose their temper, as I would being a victim of a crime of violence by a thug type. As we grow older and wiser, we know where to go and where not to go.

The notion to me that this would deter criminals doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't see a lot of street thugs, (those most likely to pick off the average citizen), putting a lot of thought into robbing someone whether they are armed or not. These are the same street thugs who walk into a business to rob the business, when it's perfectly legal to have a firearm in one's business.

People on here get so angry about this issue. They talk about rights and forget that it is my right to have an opinion.

[glhs837]

Originally Posted by letmetellyou

No. I stated in this post that I like Maryland's laws the way they are. Of course, like every thread, it didn't really stay on topic and moved of course several times.

With the exception of commercial businesses, most people who don't have some connection to criminals are not likely to be victim's of crime unless they venture into high crime areas.

The entire city of Baltimore, Chicago, New York, etc...are not high crime areas.

It is my opinion, that if we were a shall issue state, I would have just as much chance as being shot by one of these yahoo's who lose their temper, as I would being a victim of a crime of violence by a thug type. As we grow older and wiser, we know where to go and where not to go.

The notion to me that this would deter criminals doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't see a lot of street thugs, (those most likely to pick off the average citizen), putting a lot of thought into robbing someone whether they are armed or not. These are the same street thugs who walk into a business to rob the business, when it's perfectly legal to have a firearm in one's business.

People on here get so angry about this issue. They talk about rights and forget that it is my right to have an opinion.

I get that, but to me, the key is "most people", most isnt all. And otherwise law abiding citizens might have very good reasons to enter high crime areas. No reason to restrict them from protecting themselves, I dont think.

The second line I bolded is the perennial line used in protest of shall issue, but as the numbers point out, your risk of that is really low. It's a more personal version of "If everyone who wants one has a gun, there will be blood in the streets!!!!!!". But as I posted, when you ask the police in shall issues states, they havent seen a problem. So, in that regard, your opinion smakcs, to me anyway of "My mind is made up, dont confuse me with facts". I challenge you to look at those facts and see if they sway your opinion.


So, your thoughts on how street thugs make the choices about who to rob, what do you base that on? Just general impressions you get from Law and Order: SVU? Personal interaction with street thugs? You do have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. Me, I like to hang opinions on facts, what are you basing yours on?

[letmetellyou]

Originally Posted by glhs837

I get that, but to me, the key is "most people", most isnt all. And otherwise law abiding citizens might have very good reasons to enter high crime areas. No reason to restrict them from protecting themselves, I dont think.

I think the majority of people in Maryland don't want concealed carry, and that is why it has been this way for as long as I have been alive.

The second line I bolded is the perennial line used in protest of shall issue, but as the numbers point out, your risk of that is really low. It's a more personal version of "If everyone who wants one has a gun, there will be blood in the streets!!!!!!".

I'm not saying blood in the streets. I'm saying same chance of being shot by them as there is being robbed by a thug. Stay out of the thug areas and there's less chance.

So, your thoughts on how street thugs make the choices about who to rob, what do you base that on? Just general impressions you get from Law and Order: SVU? Personal interaction with street thugs? You do have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. Me, I like to hang opinions on facts, what are you basing yours on?

My experience is based on personal experience.

[glhs837]

I think the majority in MD haven't really thought about, it's never been a referendum, has it? I think it's so far down most folks radar we cant really know what they want in regards to this.

You say your chances of being shot by a CC holder is as great as that of being shot by a bad guy? Again, what do you base that idea on? I've never seen any data to back that up. that would imply that in states that enacted concealed carry, shootings of innocent citizens by CC holders would have to rise to the level of shootings of citizens by criminals. Were that the case, do you think perhaps it might get the wee bit of attention?

So, you have personal experience in how dirtbags choose victims, but say your job doesnt allow you to carry? Hmm, very few jobs fit that. Lawyers can get them for the asking, of course officers, and I think corrections types can too. Your a social worker? Hmm, not seeing that.

[letmetellyou]

Originally Posted by glhs837

I think the majority in MD haven't really thought about, it's never been a referendum, has it? I think it's so far down most folks radar we cant really know what they want in regards to this.

You say your chances of being shot by a CC holder is as great as that of being shot by a bad guy? Again, what do you base that idea on? I've never seen any data to back that up. that would imply that in states that enacted concealed carry, shootings of innocent citizens by CC holders would have to rise to the level of shootings of citizens by criminals. Were that the case, do you think perhaps it might get the wee bit of attention? I'm saying my chances. The places I travel are more likely to have concealed carry permit holders than they are criminals who are going to shoot me.
So, you have personal experience in how dirtbags choose victims, but say your job doesnt allow you to carry? Hmm, very few jobs fit that. Lawyers can get them for the asking, of course officers, and I think corrections types can too. Your a social worker? Hmm, not seeing that.

Originally Posted by glhs837
Me, I like to hang opinions on facts, what are you basing yours on?

Lol..no I am definately not a social worker. What I do now, is not what I have always done.