Apparently education isn't the answer

[GURPS (Premo)]

Originally Posted by itsbob

That and considering the college drop our rates the first two years of college research had shown that over 30% or more of the kids that go to college shouldn't.

I blame 'The System'

High School Guidance Councilors .... pushing everyone to go to College

[itsbob]

Originally Posted by GURPS

NO ONE Wants to work the TRADES .... we had this problem 20 yrs ago

I Blame High School Guidance Counselors pushing EVERYONE to College ....




Trades are a great way to make a GOOD Living ........



there should be an ASVAB Style aptitude test in the 3 yr of HS ... then Students recommended to trade schools or College accordingly


if you tested better as someone good with your hands and you still wish to go to college, fine, no Gov. loans, you get your parents to foot the bill, get a scholarship or get a bank loan

High Schools can, and should, opt in for 100% ASVAB testing.. it's FREE and would actually lead some to fulfilling careers.. AND they can even OPT out of having the results released to recruiters.. The only people that see the results would be the student and his guidance counselor.

Our school did one better.. they tested 100% of the SOPHMORES where 90% of more were too young to qualify for service so for recruiters the results were fairly worthless. Recruiter COULD get the results with the student/parent signature (to tell if he was talking to a mouth breather or not) but generally no access to any of the information from the ASVAB.

ALL kinds of tools developed by the government to translate the results to civilian terms, but as mentioned earlier the guidance counselors generally aren't interested as they're tasked with getting HUGE numbers in college.. NOT getting students into careers that actually interest them.

Not like the counselors have to pay back the outstanding loans when their student with GREAT potention as a mechanic drops out of Engineering school during the second year.

There was research done back in the 90s (and it was kept REAL quiet) that, as I mentioned above, more than 30% of first year college students had no business being in college. They either didn't want to be there, but went because everyone said that's what they HAD to do.. or weren't smart enough or prepared enough for college. Their results were what we are talking about.. GREAT potential in the trades, were pushed to college, and ended up a financial disaster when they dropped out after one or two years with no skills, no degree and in debt up to the yazooo..

[czygvtwkr]

Originally Posted by itsbob

Not like the counselors have to pay back the outstanding loans when their student with GREAT potention as a mechanic drops out of Engineering school during the second year.

Id say only about 1/3 of the students that started in engineering (in my class) made it past the first two years, but i can't think of any that dropped out due to lack of potential. I know of two highschool validictorians that dropped out after a year.

[itsbob]

Originally Posted by Vince

I should have been a plumber. I'd be rich.

Not sure if you're familiar with the TV Show Frazier, but one of my favorite scenes was Niles talking to his plumber, trying to brag about how great he had it, and how well off he was.

Granted I don't remember the make of the cars but it was something like..

Plumber: Really nice place you have here, you like the better things in life...

Niles: In fact I do.. I even have a VERY nice car. The Mercedes E350...

Plumber: You bought the E350?? Yeah, I test drove it, didn't like it, I bought the Mercedes CL550.. The E350 just felt cheap, and unrefined..



Did find a quote leading to the above exchange, and put the college educated vision of trades person in the light..

By hiring a plumber, that plumber can now afford, say, a Dolly Parton album. Miss Parton can then finance a national tour which will, of course, come to Seattle, allowing some local promoter to make enough money to send his cross-dressing teenaged son to us for $150- an-hour therapy.

[itsbob]

Originally Posted by czygvtwkr

Id say only about 1/3 of the students that started in engineering (in my class) made it past the first two years, but i can't think of any that dropped out due to lack of potential. I know of two highschool validictorians that dropped out after a year.

I don't think potential is just the brains or ability, but also the desire and the wanting to be an engineer. The smartest person in the world will drop out within six months if they REALLY don't want to be a proctologist..

Can you imagine ANY High School Valedictorian going to UTI to become a diesel mechanic?? That may be what they REALLY want, and if they do they'd be smart enough to turn it into a multi-million dollar business, but there is NO way a guidance counselor would suggest it.

[itsbob]

Originally Posted by Vince

I should have been a plumber. I'd be rich.

And you're made for it..

How easy it would be for you to stand up in a crawl space and work, while the rest of us would have to low crawl on our bellies and work above us while laying on our backs..


(sorry, couldn't resist.. )

[czygvtwkr]

Originally Posted by itsbob

I don't think potential is just the brains or ability, but also the desire and the wanting to be an engineer. The smartest person in the world will drop out within six months if they REALLY don't want to be a proctologist..

Can you imagine ANY High School Valedictorian going to UTI to become a diesel mechanic?? That may be what they REALLY want, and if they do they'd be smart enough to turn it into a multi-million dollar business, but there is NO way a guidance counselor would suggest it.

One of my highschools valedictorians (I went to one of those highschools who wants to make everyone happy so we had 6 I think) was just such a person. He was very bright, was considered to be the best "math guy" in my grade but lived a very structured, ordered life. His mom basically told him everything to do, how to dress etc. I am actually suprised he went to the state school and not to somewhere more prestigious. Well he discovered freedom and beer, I think he ended up turning things arround and became an accountant instead. This is the story of many I knew.

[Lurk]

Originally Posted by bcp

Then they should run for political office.
seems to be the major requirement,, at least for president.

No more than required for gun registration.

[GURPS (Premo)]

Originally Posted by itsbob

High Schools can, and should, opt in for 100% ASVAB testing.. it's FREE and would actually lead some to fulfilling careers..

I have this vague recollection about something similar happening in Europe or Eastern Europe maybe during the cold war


before starting high school you took an aptitude test ...... if you were smart - you studied advanced classes in prep for college ..... not so smart - Trade School

[GURPS (Premo)]

Originally Posted by itsbob

And you're made for it..

How easy it would be for you to stand up in a crawl space and work, while the rest of us would have to low crawl on our bellies and work above us while laying on our backs..


(sorry, couldn't resist.. )

[I have been in many tight spaces, repairing a leaking water line]


but do you mind walking through a flooded basement - because the sewer is stopped up - with turds and toilet paper to get to the floor drain