Freaking Out Over McCain................

[nhboy (Premo)]

Conservatives Freak Out Over McCain's Likely GOP Nomination for President

"Last night, not too long after John McCain was declared the winner of Florida's Republican primary, National Review's Michael Graham wrote an item called, "It's all over."

Assuming there is no shocking revelation or health issue, the GOP nomination is over. Conservatives need to start practicing the phrase "Nominee presumptive John McCa...."

Sorry, I can't say it. Not yet.

But it's true. When the campaign comes here to Massachusetts on February 5th, I'll proudly cast my vote for any option on the GOP ballot other than You-Know-Who. But it will be a futile gesture. Mr. "1/3rd Of The GOP Primary Vote" is going to be the nominee.

Given this, I can't help but notice just how feckless the hard-right wing of the Republican Party looks today. The anti-McCain contingent of the GOP, at least at first blush, looks like it should be a force to be reckoned with. Rush Limbaugh, Tom DeLay, Rick Santorum, most of the Fox News crowd, most of the right's talk-radio hosts, and nearly all of the leading conservative bloggers consider John McCain completely unacceptable.

And yet, here we are, looking at a political landscape in which McCain is the undisputed frontrunner for the Republican nomination. "

AlterNet: Blogs: PEEK: Conservatives Freak Out Over McCain's Likely GOP Nomination for President

McCain drives me nuts with his boasting about his military service. He was not the commander of the largest squadron in the Navy... he was the commander of the largest attack squadron in the Navy. Even so, he was in charge of between 300 and 400 people. Compare that to a captain of an aircraft carrier who's in charge of 5,000+ people, or a Fleet commander who's got 50,000 people under him. When you look at the relative differences between leading 50,000 people and 400 people, you see McCain managing the largest McDonalds in a city and bragging that he's in charge of the largest restaurant in the country.

Speaking of higher command, the truth of McCain's service is that he was denied higher command because he was a screwup. The "great leader" of the military went from being a squadron commander to being a liason officer at the Senate. That, for civilians, is not normal and indicative of an officer who's gone as far as he's going to go and who's given some busywork until he can retire. Commanders who perform well at the unit level go to higher-level admin commands and then to large surface commands or airwing commands and on up the chain... they don't get pidgeonholed with the Senate. McCain was a failure at the naval academy, he had major disciplinary problems throughout his career, and his status as a former POW was enough to forgive enough of those sins to get command of a squadron, but that was it, and once he realized he would never rise to be a real leader in the Navy, he left and ran for office.

Lastly, squadron commanders are not leaders nor managers... they are administrators. The sailors in a squadron have no say in what's going on. They follow orders or they get punished. There's little leadership involved. Also, everything the squadron commander does stems from orders he's getting from the real leaders above him/her. He gets the orders, and gives orders to those under him to make things happen. Business people are much more effective leaders because their people can always leave if they don't like the boss, so you have to lead and encourage your people as you don't have an option to put people on report if they don't listen to you.

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

I don't like any of the front runners.

Change. Change my azz. The only thing they'll change is their underwear.

So, quit talking about "change" and talk about the freaking issues, like the impending recession.

[RangerJohn]

Originally Posted by Bruzilla

Lastly, squadron commanders are not leaders nor managers... they are administrators. The sailors in a squadron have no say in what's going on. They follow orders or they get punished. There's little leadership involved. Also, everything the squadron commander does stems from orders he's getting from the real leaders above him/her. He gets the orders, and gives orders to those under him to make things happen. Business people are much more effective leaders because their people can always leave if they don't like the boss, so you have to lead and encourage your people as you don't have an option to put people on report if they don't listen to you.

I take extreme exception to this.......in my F-14 Squadron, I had CO's like Lyle "Ho Chi" Bien, "Spook" Yakeley, and Jack Ensch. These were three of the most special, inspirational LEADERS that anyone could possibly find. Denny McGinn was also an inspiring leader for me (My CO on Ranger.) My friend, even Admirals get reprimanded if they don't follow orders....
To be a Leader, one has to also know how to follow..and true leaders' know that they are accountable to those above them...and also to those below them...and whether military or civilian...if you don't mentor and develop those working under you...then you are a poor administrator, manager, and leader.

While he was in those POW camps (along with Skipper Ensch) he missed out on the assignments that might have led to becomming a Carrier CO and perhaps Admiral. He missed the window...simple as that....and don't think for a moment that the military would put a "screw up" in close contact with Congress as a liason. That assumption is patently absurd.

Don't make the mistake of comparing the individual with the job!!! Lyle "Ho Chi" Bien retired as a Vice Admiral and Deputy Commander-in-Chief and Chief of Staff at the United States Space Command. These men performed very well at the squadron skipper level and advanced to higher positions. I had a couple of great COs who went the same way... and a few who never made it past the rank of commander. As you well know, the higher you go in the chain-of-command, the higher your level or responsibility and accountability go, and you also know there's a world of difference between being the guy who's responsible for generating the tasking and orders and the guy who's making sure they get carried out. The three men you referenced performed well at the unit level CO job and advanced. John McCain didn't and got shunted off to a stash billet in DC.

But I'll maintain my position that there's a big difference between being a unit CO and being the CEO of a corporation. A CO gets his orders from those up above him, while a CEO operates at the level of the CNO, and I think you would agree that the leadership skills required of the CNO are a far bit higher than those needed of a unit CO. Also, CO of a squadron has a LOT to fall back on as far as managing the unit. There are regulations, policies, SOPs, standards, etc. External elements control how, when, and how much is folks get paid, how his unit is funded, how his unit is equipped, how many employees he can have and will have, when he needs to prepare to do something like deploy, etc. You don't have that level of guidance and support in the corporate world, and it's up to the CEP/President of the company to provide that leadership and guidance. If a unit CO has an issue, he can take it to the wing commander, who'll take it to the force commander, who'll take it to the fleet commander. The CEO/President usually just has the support of the person looking back at them from the mirror when they have an issue. In a matchup of leadership skills between McCain's one tour as a unit CO, and Romney's business and Olympics experience... Romney wins hands down.

Lastly, you can say what you want about my stated view of McCain, but the facts speak for themselves. Guys who have it together DO NOT get stashed. The best go onto get their flags and higher command. Those who don't make the cut don't. I don't know anything about Jack Ensch, but if you truly believe that the only reason he didn't advance was because "he missed the window" you're fooling yourself. He may have been a great guy and a fantastic fighter pilot, but those who judged him found him wanting and that's why he didn't advance. I guarantee you that you don't know the whole story on the guy, but the Navy did. Back to McCain, I maintain that he was a screw-up. Read his own words and previous statements about his time before being a POW and see for yourself. I would hate to see his FITREPs for back then as I'll bet they were awful. If it wasn't for his dad's interventions,McCain would have never seen LCDR.

[RangerJohn]

John McCain did retire as a Captain. Skipper Ensch retired as a Captain as well, retiring as CO of the Naval Training Center in San Diego (as it was being decommissioned.) Somebody (not me) could have considered that job being "shunted off" as well.

Bottomline...you don't get a to be a Captain by being a screw-up. (and if you do screw up while a Captain, I thought you got stashed over at CINCLANT in Norfolk so someone could keep a close eye on you...not where CONGRESS can keep a close eye on you!)

I might be a little parochial...I served under the command of all three of these gentlemen, and if any of them asked me to go to war with them, I'd go...anytime...any place.

I'll grant you...there is a huge difference between being a Squadron CO and the CNO... but that counts for administration as well as leadership. The skills have to be developed...no one starts out at the top (except for Teddy Kennedy!)

McCain might have missed his window while in the Navy, but his time in the Senate has been positive...and you have to earn trust and votes to be in the Senate for as long as he has been. And there you aren't accountable to your boss, or the Board of Directors, or your stockholders...you are accountable to your constituents...even those who didn't vote for you.

[ImnoMensa]

I dont want to get in on you guy's argument , but McCain's time in the Senate is noted for Campaign Finance Reform , a definite shot at free speech ,and for Amnesty for illegals , neither I consider positive. he works too well with liberals to suit me.

Given the choice between him and the two main Democrat characters running I will vote for him, but I will have to back up to the voting booth with my nose held to do it.

To be honest this is a terrible time for our country when the choices we have for leader of this country consists of the dipsticks we have running.

[cwo_ghwebb]

I can't stand McVain for all the political reasons stated by Mensa. The whole bit about immigration and voting against the tax cuts twice was enough for me. He's as bad as Clinton, feels he's 'owed' the Presidency that Bush took away from him. As the nominee, he'll end up like Dole.

[RangerJohn]

There is a pretty poor field out there, and Romney especially flip-flops more than the night cook at the Waffle House.

There are a whole lotta agenda's within the Beltway...and the thing about McCain that so impresses me is that he actually does find a way to get things accomplished, despite having to put up with a ton of others who aren't necessarily team players.

I won't go into some of the other comments here...I doubt that anyone on this forum would want to pick lettuce....(thank God it was my Great Grandfather who snuck over on the boat from Ireland! He picked cabbage and made whisky.)

But you do have to admit that being CO of a RAG outfit is still a lot cooler than being on the Senate Finance committee....

McCain is gonna win...Nancy Reagan adores him...and when the rest of you all contemplate (and this was Romney's one good line) "Bill Clinton in the White House again...with nothing to do!" Most of ya'll will work overtime to see McCain beat Billary or Hillbilly...or whatever we are calling her this week.

Originally Posted by RangerJohn

John McCain did retire as a Captain. Skipper Ensch retired as a Captain as well, retiring as CO of the Naval Training Center in San Diego (as it was being decommissioned.) Somebody (not me) could have considered that job being "shunted off" as well.

Bottomline...you don't get a to be a Captain by being a screw-up. (and if you do screw up while a Captain, I thought you got stashed over at CINCLANT in Norfolk so someone could keep a close eye on you...not where CONGRESS can keep a close eye on you!)

I might be a little parochial...I served under the command of all three of these gentlemen, and if any of them asked me to go to war with them, I'd go...anytime...any place.

I'll grant you...there is a huge difference between being a Squadron CO and the CNO... but that counts for administration as well as leadership. The skills have to be developed...no one starts out at the top (except for Teddy Kennedy!)

McCain might have missed his window while in the Navy, but his time in the Senate has been positive...and you have to earn trust and votes to be in the Senate for as long as he has been. And there you aren't accountable to your boss, or the Board of Directors, or your stockholders...you are accountable to your constituents...even those who didn't vote for you.

I really hate to say this, but the second most absolute screwed-up retired officer I've ever known retired as the skipper of the Naval ASW Training Center in San Diego.

Once you are in the command pipeline, you are considered to be eligible for continued advancement and larger commands... unless you screw up. As I've said before, it sounds real prestigious to be a liaison officer to the House, Senate, and embassy, etc., but those are all stash jobs. Officers who are deemed worthy of higher advancement get groomed for their next command. They become XOs, Chief of Staffs, aides to admirals, go to the NWC, go to a joint command, etc., i.e., there follow-on tours are always billets where they can gain either leadership or joint-service experience, and where they will have an opportunity to directly observe and support the supperior officers they will someday support. McCain's job as senate liaison officer was to sit in a little office with his peers from the other services, and when Senator Schmultz wanted some information about some bill that involved the Navy, he would send one of his little aides down to tell McCain to go get the information. Was it a valuable job? Sure, but one you waste on someone who you're planning on giving a flag to one day. There's only so many billets at Norfolk. By the way... the absolutely most screwed up retired officer I ever knew was a commander with severe personality disorders. He went from being the OinC of a minor shore command, to selected to be XO of a VP squadron, to having his OinC tour cut short by six months and was reassigned as the OinC of JROTC units in the Orlando, FL area. He was retired out at 20 years, two months.

And I agree with you about being parochial. There were junior LTs I knew who I would trust as a CO during wartime. There are many, many great officers in the service, but like with any other group of people... there are those who are found wanting as well, and McCain was one of them.