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Old 02-12-2008, 02:40 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Before 9-11-2001, 27 of 28 active armed conflicts in the world involved Muslims/Islam.
this does not sound correct.

In fact it sounds like those statistics I hear about regarding L.A.s hispanic problem.
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Old 02-12-2008, 02:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Islam Without Camaflage Pt 1



a review of The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades)

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August 20, 2005
Islam Without Camouflage
By Andrew G. Bostom

Through the first six decades of the 20th century, a cadre of erudite Christian theologians and scholars wrote illuminating, unapologetic analyses of Islamic dogmas, practices, and history. These individuals, primarily Europeans, also included persons from the indigenous pre—Islamic communities, living with the major Muslim populations of Africa, the Levant, Asia Minor, the Indian subcontinent, and the Far East. Prominent among these distinguished scholars were Edward Sell, W. St. Clair Tisdall, W.H.T. Gairdner, D.S. Margoliouth, W.R. Gardner, Henri Lammens, Arthur Jeffery, Samuel Zwemer, Murray Titus, and Antoine Fattal. Their detailed, eloquent observations were refreshingly candid, and they often engaged in lively and illuminating debates with the Islamic apologists of their respective generations, both Muslim and non—Muslim alike.

Excerpts from insightful works by Gardner in 1912, (W.H.T.) Gairdner in 1919, and Fattal in 1958—addressing critical issues, such as jihad war, and dhimmitude, the plight of non—Muslims vanquished by jihad campaigns—illustrate this distinctive style of writing, which was devoid of the politically correct dithering typical of most contemporary analysis of these matters.

W.R. Gardner, who worked and studied in India, was a Christian theologian and scholar of the Koran and Sufism. He debunked at length apologetic 'reinterpretations' of jihad war written by Sheikh Muhammad Rida and Chiragh Ali, in particular, during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Gardner assailed the disingenuous sophistry of the narrow 'etymological' arguments propounded by these Muslim apologists, and then turned their tacit acknowledgments against them—acknowledgments which validate, ironically, a millennium of both orthodox Islamic jurisprudence, and the bellicose history of jihad:

For the question of what jihad is cannot be settled by reference alone to the etymology of the word jihad. The Koran plainly teaches in many passages, notwithstanding the claims—put forward by Maulavi Chir�gh `Ali (cf. Sells 'The Faith of Islam,' pp. 411 ff.), the duty of fighting for the Faith or 'in the way of God,' by using the word q�tala, and El Zamakhshary [d.1144, the renowned Koranic commentator], commenting on ii. 186, 7, says, 'Fighting in the way of God is jihad for the glorifying of his word and the strengthening of the Religion.' And whatever may be the etymological meaning of the word jihad, there can be no gainsaying the fact that it is sometimes used in the Koran in the sense of warlike actions, a warfare for the sake of the Faith. And when one asks what the teaching of Mohammedanism is concerning jihad, the word is employed in this latter sense. [1]

There is undoubtedly a feeling, if not a belief, among many Westerners that a Moslem regards it as a duty binding on him in accordance with the literal command of the Koran, to kill any and every unbeliever whom he may meet when once jihad has been proclaimed. Sheikh Rid� acknowledges that this conception of the duty of a Moslem during jihad may have been in the past, and may even now be that which is common among the ignorant or less educated Moslems... among the more recent Moslem apologists, jihad is regarded as war in defence [sic] of Islam, but we have been forced to the conclusion that any war in which a non—Moslem power is the aggressor must inevitably be regarded by Moslems as involving on their part jihad. The point we have now to consider is, what is the teaching of Mohammedanism as to wars of aggression. Is a war for the extension of Islamic rule also jihad ? In considering this point, not much light is to be got from the writings of the more recent Moslem authors, such as those we have quoted. They simply deny that it is a principle of Islam that jihad may include wars of aggression. By denying this, however, they do not prove anything; and, in order to get light on this part of the question before us, we must look at the Koran itself through those explanations of it which up to the present time pass as authoritative. This does not, of course, mean that these explanations are necessarily correct. Maulavi Chir�gh 'Ali, for example, denies that they are correct. To quote his opinion as given in Sell's 'The of Faith of Islam,' p. 411, 'All fighting injunctions in the Koran are, in the first place, only for self—defence, and none of them has any reference to making war offen�sively. In the second place, they are transitory in their nature. The Mohammedan Common Law is wrong on this point where it allows unbelievers to be attacked without provocation.' We do not desire here to discuss this question as to whether the Common Law is right or wrong, that is, whether orthodox Mohammedanism is a fine representation of the spirit and teaching of the Koran, or whether a better and truer representation of the conception of Mohammed and of his teachings might not have been given in a system of doctrine, developed from the point of view of Maulavi Chir�gh `Ali and such Moslems as he...Let us quote his words again: 'The Mohammedan Common Law is wrong on this point when it allows unbelievers to be attacked without provocation.' We take then as proved, the statement that Mohammedan Common Law allows unbelievers to be attacked without provocation... (emphasis added) [2]


W.H.T. Gairdner (d. 1928, in Cairo), was a gifted Arabic linguist and scholar of (the Sufi) Al—Ghazali's works, who lived for three decades in Cairo, where he also served as a Protestant Canon. In 1919, he wrote an essay responding to a mendacious 'birthday tribute' panegyric of Muhammad written collaboratively by Muslims and non—Muslims. A particularly trenchant segment of Gairdner's rebuttal discussed the slaughter of the vanquished Medinan Jewish tribe, the Banu Qurayza—a massacre which became an important motif in jihad war jurisprudence. [3] Relying exclusively upon Muslim sources, Gairdner highlighted without equivocation the pivotal role that Muhammad himself played in orchestrating the overall events:

The umpire who gave the fatal decision (Sa'ad) was extravagantly praised by Muhammad. Yet his action was wholly and admittedly due to his lust for personal vengeance on a tribe which had occasioned him a painful wound. In the agony of its treatment he cried out— 'O God, let not my soul go forth ere thou has cooled my eye from the Bani Quraiza' [Banu Qurayza]. This was the arbiter to whose word the fate of that tribe was given over. His sentiments were well—known to Muhammad, who appointed him. It is perfectly clear from that that their slaughter had been decreed. What makes it clearer still is the assertion of another biographer that Muhammad had refused to treat with the Bani Quraiza at all until they had 'come down to receive the judgment of the Apostle of God'. Accordingly 'they came down'; in other words put themselves in his power. And only then was the arbitration of Sa'ad proposed and accepted— but not accepted until it had been forced on him by Muhammad; for Sa'ad first declined and tried to make Muhammad take the responsibility, but was told 'qad amarak Allahu takhuma fihim' 'Allah has commanded you to give sentence in their case'. From every point of view therefore the evidence is simply crushing that Muhammad was the ultimate author of this massacre. [4]


Four decades later (in 1958), Antoine Fattal, a Lebanese Maronite Professor of Law, whose Le Statut Legal de Musulmans en Pays' d'Islam remains the benchmark analysis of non—Muslims (especially Christians and Jews) living under the Shari'a (i.e., Muslim Law), offered these perspectives on the living legacy of jihad and dhimmitude:

Dhimma or dhimmi status...is one of the results of the jihad or holy war. Connected with the notion of jihad is the distinction between dar al—harb (territory or 'house' of war) and dar al—islam (house of Islam). The latter includes all territories subject to Moslem authority. It is in a state of perpetual war with the dar al—harb. The inhabitants of the dar al—harb are harbis, who are not answerable to the Islamic authority and whose persons and goods are mubah, that is, at the mercy of Believers. However, when Moslems are in a subordinate state, they can negotiate a truce with the Harbis lasting no more than ten years, which they are obliged to revoke unilaterally as soon as they regain the upper hand, following the example of the Prophet after Hudaibiyya...[5]

...Even today, the study of the jihad is part of the curriculum of all the Islamic institutes. In the universities of Al—Azhar, Nagaf (Najaf), and Zaitoune, students are still taught that the holy war [jihad] is a binding prescriptive decree, pronounced against the Infidels, which will only be revoked with the end of the world... If he [the dhimmi] is tolerated, it is for reasons of a spiritual nature, since there is always the hope that he might be converted; or of a material nature, since he bears almost the whole tax burden. He has his place in society, but he is constantly reminded of his inferiority...In no way is the dhimmi the equal of the Muslim. He is marked out for social inequality and belongs to a despised caste; unequal in regard to individual rights; unequal in the Law Courts as his evidence is not admitted by any Muslim tribunal and for the same crime his punishment is greater than that imposed on Muslims...No social relationship, no fellowship is possible between Muslims and dhimmis... [6]
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Old 02-12-2008, 03:01 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Old 02-12-2008, 03:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Nope Muslims don't Massacre Christians

Photos- Hellenic Genocite

Ask an Armenian or Kurd some time why they hate the Turks So Much ....
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Old 02-12-2008, 03:18 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Nope Muslims don't Massacre Christians

Photos- Hellenic Genocite

Ask an Armenian or Kurd some time why they hate the Turks So Much ....
so whats your point? christians are repsponsible for millions of deaths just in america alone (trail of tears comes to mind). I guess becasue we did a better job at it there is noone left to complain.....
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Old 02-12-2008, 03:32 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I am not sure guys like this help:

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Nothing Goode about it

Rep. Virgil Goode (R-Va.) has always been one of those far-right lawmakers who only make headlines for doing dumb things. In 2004, for example, Goode co-sponsored a ridiculous bill that would empower Congress to reverse Supreme Court decisions with which lawmakers disagree. In March 2006, he came to the political world’s attention when Randy “Duke” Cunningham noted that Goode was one of just a handful of lawmakers who helped arrange federal funding for defense contractors who bribed Cunningham.

Now, Virgil Goode is back in the news, this time for putting anti-Muslim bigotry in print.

In a letter sent to district supporters earlier this month, Goode explained his perspective on Rep.-elect Keith Ellison’s (D-Minn.) decision to use a Koran for his ceremonial swearing-in ceremony. Goode told his supporters:
The Ten Commandments and “In God We Trust” are on the wall in my office. A Muslim student came by the office and asked why I did not have anything on my wall about the Koran. My response was clear, “As long as I have the honor of representing the citizens of the 5th District of Virginia in the United States House of Representatives, The Koran is not going to be on the wall of my office.”
That, in and of itself, isn’t particularly offensive. Goode can hang whatever he wants on his wall. If he doesn’t want to feature the Koran, that’s his business.

But Goode went considerably further.
When I raise my hand to take the oath on Swearing In Day, I will have the Bible in my other hand. I do not subscribe to using the Koran in any way. The Muslim Representative from Minnesota was elected by the voters of that district and if American citizens don’t wake up and adopt the Virgil Goode position on immigration there will likely be many more Muslims elected to office and demanding the use of the Koran. We need to stop illegal immigration totally and reduce legal immigration and end the diversity visas policy pushed hard by President Clinton and allowing many persons from the Middle East to come to this country. I fear that in the next century we will have many more Muslims in the United States if we do not adopt the strict immigration policies that I believe are necessary to preserve the values and beliefs traditional to the United States of America and to prevent our resources from being swamped.

America has always been the great melting pot, but I guess his point is, are Muslims going to add to the American Culture, adding to the experience's, or are Muslims going to attempt to Assimilate America into some Caliphate extension, with Sharia based Laws replacing the Constitution 100yrs from now



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Old 02-12-2008, 03:39 PM   #17 (permalink)
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so whats your point? Christians are responsible for millions of deaths just in America alone (trail of tears comes to mind). I guess because we did a better job at it there is no one left to complain.....
Trail of Tears

and your assumption is what ?
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Old 02-12-2008, 03:40 PM   #18 (permalink)
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List of Islamic Terror Attacks For the Just the first 12 days of this Month!

Date Country City Killed Injured Description
2/12/2008 Thailand Narathiwat 2 0 A district chief and his son are shot to death by militant Muslims.
2/11/2008 Iraq Baghdad 19 45 Nineteen Iraqis are blown to bits when Sunni bombers car bombers attack a petrol station.
2/11/2008 Pakistan Mir Ali 10 13 A suicide bomber detonates at a political rally, killing ten people.
2/10/2008 Afghanistan Heart 1 2 Religious extremists ambush a vehicle, killing a young man inside.
2/10/2008 Iraq Tal Abta 12 7 Two women and four children are among the dead when al-Qaeda gunmen attack a Sunni village.
2/10/2008 Iraq Albo Efan 3 7 A suicide attack leaves three civilians dead. A woman is shot to death elsewhere.
2/10/2008 Iraq Yathrib 33 51 A Fedayeen suicide bomber at a marketplace blasts thirty-three Iraqi shoppers to Allah.
2/10/2008 Thailand Narathiwat 1 1 A 65-year-old man is shot to death by Muslim militants while sitting in a tea shop.
2/10/2008 Somalia Baidoa 1 0 Islamic gunmen assassinate a government worker.
2/9/2008 Afghanistan Nawa 4 0 Three children and a woman are killed when a bomb being constructed by a religious cleric explodes prematurely.
2/9/2008 Somalia Mogadishu 2 0 Two men are shot to death by Muslim militants in separate terror attacks.
2/9/2008 Iraq Baghdad 26 0 More than twenty-five victims of sectarian violence are found in at least two locations.
2/9/2008 Pakistan Charsadda 27 50 A Fedayeen suicide bomber slaughters twenty-seven people attending a political rally.
2/9/2008 Nigeria Kano 3 20 Muslims riot over a cartoon caricature of Muhammad, killing three people with machetes.
2/9/2008 Thailand Yala 1 0 A 29-year-old woman is murdered by Islamic gunmen while she is riding a motorcycle.
2/9/2008 Thailand Yala 2 0 Two middle-aged men are brutally ambushed and killed by Muslim extremists while sitting in a pickup truck.
2/9/2008 Somalia Hiiraan 5 9 Suspected Islamic militia kill five local soldiers in a brutal ambush.
2/8/2008 Iraq Baquba 13 0 Jihadis kill five people in a brutal home invasion as a mass grave is unearthed elsewhere with eight bodies.
2/8/2008 Sudan Abu Surouj 200 0 The initial death toll from attacks on three villages by government troops and the Janjiweed is put at two-hundred civilians.
2/8/2008 Afghanistan Ghazni 2 7 A child is among two Aghans murdered in a suicide attack by a Fedayeen bomber.
2/8/2008 Algeria Ain R'Ghiya 8 0 Eight security officers are massacred at point-blank range by Islamists with machine-guns.
2/8/2008 India Poonch 1 0 A civilian is shot to death by Muslim terrorists.
2/8/2008 Algeria Boukalfa 1 1 Islamic gunmen murder a police officer.
2/7/2008 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 Islamic radicals kidnap a young man in his 20's, bind him, slash his throat and then shoot him in the head.
2/7/2008 Iraq Muradiyah 4 9 A child is killed in a bombing. Jihadis also invade a home and murder three brothers in a separate attack.
2/7/2008 Iraq Baghdad 11 18 Islamic gunmen shoot eleven people to death in various attacks.
2/6/2008 Pakistan Khyber 1 2 A civilian is killed in a bomb blast.
2/6/2008 Iraq Diwaniya 4 9 Four people are killed when Jihadis bomb a minibus.
2/6/2008 Iraq Muqdadiyah 10 0 Ten headless bodies are found, presumably kidnap victims decapitated by the Mujahideen.
2/6/2008 Thailand Yala 1 0 A 21-year-old man is shot to death by Muslim militants.
2/6/2008 Iraq Kirkuk 2 9 A 7-year-old girl and a woman are killed in separate Jihad bombings.
2/5/2008 Iraq Hillah 1 0 A woman is shot to death by Islamic radicals.
2/5/2008 Somalia Mogadishu 4 9 Two women are among four killed in a marketplace attack by Islamic militias.
2/5/2008 Bangladesh Rangpur 0 0 A convert to Christianity dies from burns suffered when a Muslim mob set fire to her house four weeks earlier.
2/5/2008 Afghanistan Kandahar 2 0 Two Afghan police are killed in a Taliban bombing.
2/5/2008 Iraq Samarrah 55 0 Fifty-five bodies, victims of the Islamic State of Iraq, are found in a mass grave. Many had been tortured.
2/5/2008 Iraq Samarrah 1 0 A cleric speaks out against al-Qaeda and is quickly gunned down.
2/5/2008 Iraq Fallujah 5 4 A Fedayeen suicide bomber murder five Iraqis along a city street.
2/5/2008 Somalia Bossaso 25 90 Islamic militias claim responsibility for two separate bombings in which 25 African laborers are killed.
2/4/2008 Pakistan Rawalpindi 8 25 A suicide bomber rams his car into a minibus carrying medical personnel, killing at least eight.
2/4/2008 Thailand Pattani 1 12 Islamists detonate a bomb outside a boarding school, killing one person.
2/4/2008 Iraq Abu Saida 2 1 Jihadis kill a 7-year-old boy and one other civilian in an attack on a minibus.
2/4/2008 Pakistan Sukkur 1 0 A girl is chopped to pieces with an axe by her father, who was concerned about her 'character.'
2/4/2008 Afghanistan Helmand 5 1 Two children and two women are among five members of the same family killed in a roadside attack by religious extremists.
2/4/2008 Thailand Yala 1 0 A 30-year-old civilian is shot to death by Muslim militants.
2/4/2008 Israel Dimona 1 11 A Palestinian suicide bomber murders an Israeli woman at a shopping mall.
2/3/2008 Iraq Baquba 4 0 Suspected al-Qaeda gunmen attack a home, killing four young Sunnis.
2/3/2008 Somalia Mogadishu 8 9 Islamic militia blow up a minibus, killing eight civilians and maiming nine more.
2/2/2008 India Poonch 2 1 Two police officers are killed by Lashkar-e-Toiba gunmen.
2/2/2008 Iraq Mosul 4 9 al-Qaeda bombers take out four Sunnis.
2/2/2008 Thailand Yala 1 0 A rubber tapper is shot to death by Muslim militants on his way to work.
2/1/2008 Pakistan Mir Ali 5 8 A suicidal Sunni rams a police vehicle with an explosives-laden vehicle, killing at least five people.
2/1/2008 Mauritania Nouakchott 0 3 Bearded Jihadis shout 'Allah Akbar' and open up on the Israeli embassy with automatic weapons, injuring three bystanders.
2/1/2008 Iraq Kut 2 4 The Mujahideen fire into a bus terminal, killing two Iraqis.
2/1/2008 Thailand Narathiwat 2 0 Two elderly men are murdered by Islamic gunmen in separate attacks.
2/1/2008 Iraq Baghdad 99 196 al-Qaeda sends two women with Down's Syndrome into two pet markets, then detonates each remotely, slaughtering about one hundred other innocents.
2/1/2008 Iraq Mosul 1 0 A 12-year-old boy is taken out by Sunni radicals.
1/31/2008 Somalia Mogadishu 3 1 Islamic militia stage a drive-by attack on a house, killing three people inside.
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Old 02-12-2008, 03:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Trail of Tears

and your assumption is what ?
my assuption is that is just one documented instance of christians working to erradicate an entire race. (btw this was just a small portion of the native americans that were eliminated)
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Old 02-12-2008, 03:45 PM   #20 (permalink)
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copied from comments on

Virgil Goode Right: Stop Muslim Immigration « Old Atlantic Lighthouse

Quote:

“In America, we do not conflate religion and nationality.”

Islam does conflate religion with politics.

“Mr. Goode’s comments are thuroughly un-American.”

Therefore, for you, Islam is un-American.

” There are a number of countries that do consider religion to be part of nationality– collectively, they care called “the old world”–look to Europe and the Middle East for examples.”

There is a poll from Jordan University that most Muslims in each Middle East country want Sharia as the sole or a source of law.

So you should object to immigration from them.

Robert Spencer wants a survey as part of immigration. You should support that.

“Our ancestors came to America to create a new world. If Mr. Goode doesn’t like it, and wants to live in a “Christian” nation, he can leave.”

Given your statements, and the above facts, that shows that for you, Muslims should leave. Thus your conclusion is not only that Muslims should not immigrate, but that they should leave.

Goode does not in fact advocate conflating religion and state, but Islam does. Read Jihadwatch.org.

Quote:

Being Muslim first brought about the kinds of countries that oppress, enslave, and murder their own people, motivating them by the hundreds of thousands to flee those countries to places like this one, and then criticize it.

Being a Christian first causes me to pray for the conversion of Muslims to engage them where possible in conversation to convince them to believe in Christ and be saved.

Being Muslim first causes them to threaten the infidel with death by the sword, to infiltrate nations in the desire to bring them under Sharia.

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Last edited by RadioPatrol : 02-12-2008 at 03:53 PM.
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