Left wing indoctrination

[Baja28]

Originally Posted by Bruzilla

And what is the impact? Workers at the fully-unionized GM plant make $26.50 to $33.50 an hour, plus benefits, which gives them a burdened labor rate of about $81 per hour per worker (PHPW). Toyota will be paying non-union labor $21 to $25 an hour with benefits, and will have a PHPW rate of about $35, but that's just an estimate.

Where did you get this number?

My electricians make $35.55/hour and cost me about $58.00/hour burdened. Do UAW bene's equal almost 3 times the rate? I don't think so.

[Pete (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Bruzilla

I think Limbaugh made this argument very effectively when he compared Ohio and Texas, and I think the same can be said of Michigan. Your aunt used the old chestnut about GM moving jobs to Mexico, which is partly true, but what she fails to take into account is that GM is only moving some jobs to Mexico. Why some jobs are leaving and some are not is what she needs to know.

GM has operated a body plant near Arlington, Texas for over half a century, and it is showing no signs of slowing down. GM invests millions of dollars in upkeep of the plant, and there is really no possibility of it closing as long as GM is open for business. Also, Toyota is building its own plant just about 200 miles from the GM plant. So why is it that one state, Michigan, has plants closing and no new employers coming in, and another state, Texas, keeps its plants and new ones are coming in?

There are two primary reasons: taxes and unions. You mention that taxes are through the roof in Michigan. Actually, using The Tax Foundations 2007 State Business Tax Climate Index findings, Michigan ranks 27th in business taxes (Ohio, BTW, is 49th). Texas ranks 6th. Ask your aunt if she were a business, would she want to be in a state with the 6th lowest taxes or the 27th? As for unions, Texas is a Right to Work state, Michigan is not. Workers in Texas are free to join unions, and just as free not to. This is another big factor in deciding where you want your business.

And what is the impact? Workers at the fully-unionized GM plant make $26.50 to $33.50 an hour, plus benefits, which gives them a burdened labor rate of about $81 per hour per worker (PHPW). Toyota will be paying non-union labor $21 to $25 an hour with benefits, and will have a PHPW rate of about $35, but that's just an estimate. So it's probably true to say that Toyota is going to be offering less pay and benefits to its workers, but the key word here is "workers". $25/hour isn't as good as $33.50, but it's a whole lot better than $0.

The reason that Michigan is losing jobs and not getting new ones has nothing to do with CEO salaries or how much GM is making, or jobs moving to Mexico. It's all about their corporate tax rate structures and Right to Work policies.

Which is exactly my point. If you talk to the brainwashed they say;

Oh, but GM doesn't pay taxes in Michigan and the union is the only reason that workers in Michigan aren't eating stale saltines and sardines 3X a day because they are evil and hate people.

and they believe it 100%. If you bring up facts like you have they then swivel into the "grand conspiracy" that government allows GM to cheat, corporate welfare, they "say" they lost money.

[Pete (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Baja28

Where did you get this number?

My electricians make $35.55/hour and cost me about $58.00/hour burdened. Do UAW bene's equal almost 3 times the rate? I don't think so.

I bet they do.

Originally Posted by Baja28

Where did you get this number?

My electricians make $35.55/hour and cost me about $58.00/hour burdened. Do UAW bene's equal almost 3 times the rate? I don't think so.

Do you also have to pay for the retirement and healthcare costs for thousands of thousands of retirees? I doubt it. Do you have administrative costs associated with keeping 37,000 employees at 28 plants working? Probably not. Your burdened rate is based on your admin expenses, and I'm guessing GM's is much higher than yours.

[RadioPatrol]

Originally Posted by Pete

He was there over 30 years and never worked day shift because he was too "junior". People got in and never left. When that happens you have a bunch of problems. 1. It drives the wage range up, 2. An aging work force requires more insurance. GM is being crushed under the load of pension plans, escalating insurance costs.

I saw a report some yrs ago .... that Automakers had 3 generations on Retirement .... they had this guys Grandfather, Father, and Him getting ready to retire .... he put in his 20 and was getting out

no wonder cars cost so much .......... on a lighter note that same yr FORD stuck it to the Insurance Carrier ....

told them your going to take less keeping benefits the same and like it ....... or else

Ford was getting crushed by the Health Insurance Premiums

the insurance companies blinked and said Hmmm OK ....

different topic from 07

The other big savings component for Ford is wages, including the UAW agreeing to a pay structure for new hires starting at $14.20 per hour, about half that of a current worker.

so new hires were $28.40 Hr ? WTF

UAW Cuts Can Save Ford