Left wing indoctrination

[Pete (Premo)]

Last night my Aunt from Michigan called to chit chat. She is my favorite Aunt, a great chick and we have a hoot whenever we talk or get to visit. The only place we have widely differing opinions is unions / Big Labor because she lives in the UAW breadbasket and her hubby just retired from GM after 35 years.

Michigan is in dire straits. The taxes are through the roof, jobs are leaving, no new industry is moving in to take the place of the departing auto manufacturing jobs, unemployment is high, welfare rolls are huge and half the state is in foreclosure. Looks pretty bleak up there.

So we are talking about GM because my uncle volunteers now a little for the county "Committee for the Aging". They go out and help out with manual labor at senior citizens places where they can't or can't afford it. Setting up air conditioners in the summer, raking leaves, cutting grass, blowing snow or whatever. He got this gig because he was furloughed by GM for a year and he worked there while GM paid his full wages. Yes, GM paid him for a year to volunteer at the county Committee for the Aging.

So we were talking and she said those bastards at GM were shipping the jobs to Mexico, paying them $2 a day and raking in fist fulls of profit while people in Michigan are starving. I replied "GM has posted losses of billions for the last 3 years and so has Ford?" To which she says "Well that is what "they" say.

So I looked it up and yes GM did in fact post losses of 2005: $10.6B, 2006: $8.6B and 2007: $38.7B.

Ford was better posting a profit of $2B in 2005 but followed that up with a loss of $12.7 and $3B in 2006 and 2007.

She was also blown away that I said GM and Ford pay taxes. Income taxes, FICA match, property tax, sales tax and so on.

So I was wondering how a woman with a Masters (in nursing) who is actually pretty sharp could think GM and Ford can be REALLY raking in fist fulls of cash in profits and don't pay taxes when the opposite is really true?

Big labor has basically brainwashed the rank and file. Liberal mind control is the only explanation for otherwise smart people to totally ignore printed fact.

Is this right?

[RadioPatrol]

Originally Posted by Pete

Big labor has basically brainwashed the rank and file. Liberal mind control is the only explanation for otherwise smart people to totally ignore printed fact.

Is this right?

You summed it all up in the last line ...........


The Big Union Lie ......

Liberal mind control

[ylexot (Premo)]

In a nutshell...the CEO gets paid a lot. Of course, if the CEO donated his entire salary, that would pay for probably less than 100 union line workers...

[ylexot (Premo)]

Here's a good one to point your aunt to...
GM CEO Takes Big Pay Cut, Automaker Cutting Dividend, Executive Salaries, Retiree Benefits - CBS News

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by Pete

So I was wondering how a woman with a Masters (in nursing) who is actually pretty sharp could think GM and Ford can be REALLY raking in fist fulls of cash in profits and don't pay taxes when the opposite is really true?

Because people believe what they want to believe. They get so invested in a particular issue or party or whatever, that they will now fight to the death to keep their beliefs intact. You present them with facts and they go (as my grandmother did), "He never did that. That's just the right-wing media making up lies."



Anyway, the labor unions and their media cohorts have convinced the unwashed masses that corporations "owe" them something. Like GM has some responsibility toward keeping the people of Michigan from starving.

[Pete (Premo)]

Originally Posted by ylexot

In a nutshell...the CEO gets paid a lot. Of course, if the CEO donated his entire salary, that would pay for probably less than 100 union line workers...

That is every big labor supporters argument.

The CEO of the 30,000 employee company made $36M but we only made $50K Oh the injustice!

[ylexot (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Pete

That is every big labor supporters argument.

The CEO of the 30,000 employee company made $36M but we only made $50K Oh the injustice!

Actually, best I could find was that the CEO got $8.5M in 2005. That was before the 50% cut that I posted. Also, best I could find for assembly salary was $38k from Honda. So, $8.5M/$38k=223 line workers. Then if you consider that he is now making less than $8.5M and line workers probably make more than $38k...

[Pete (Premo)]

Originally Posted by ylexot

Actually, best I could find was that the CEO got $8.5M in 2005. That was before the 50% cut that I posted. Also, best I could find for assembly salary was $38k from Honda. So, $8.5M/$38k=223 line workers. Then if you consider that he is now making less than $8.5M and line workers probably make more than $38k...

My numbers were just for example, not actual.

My uncle worked for Fisher Body, which is part of GM and he made BIG money compared to the job.

He started out welding windshield frames but as the plants got more automated he was moved to several different jobs. Near the end he was driving a fork lift delivering parts too big to run on the line. he was making large money for a fork lift operator. Add to that his medical, dental, qualified retirement plan and all the other bennies including 4-6 weeks paid off a year for "change over" and he did pretty damn good.

He was there over 30 years and never worked day shift because he was too "junior". People got in and never left. When that happens you have a bunch of problems. 1. It drives the wage range up, 2. An aging work force requires more insurance. GM is being crushed under the load of pension plans, escalating insurance costs.

[cwo_ghwebb]

but, but.....

All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now Joe gets it too.

Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call the union.

Don't you just worship the water the union leadership walks on? I mean, going to Detroit to visit the Tomb of the Unknown Union Leaders and The Teamster National Union Cemetery just fills me with tears. All their sweat, tears and sacrifice for the great unwashed masses who would be so downtrodden by those great, evil Capitalists.

/

I think Limbaugh made this argument very effectively when he compared Ohio and Texas, and I think the same can be said of Michigan. Your aunt used the old chestnut about GM moving jobs to Mexico, which is partly true, but what she fails to take into account is that GM is only moving some jobs to Mexico. Why some jobs are leaving and some are not is what she needs to know.

GM has operated a body plant near Arlington, Texas for over half a century, and it is showing no signs of slowing down. GM invests millions of dollars in upkeep of the plant, and there is really no possibility of it closing as long as GM is open for business. Also, Toyota is building its own plant just about 200 miles from the GM plant. So why is it that one state, Michigan, has plants closing and no new employers coming in, and another state, Texas, keeps its plants and new ones are coming in?

There are two primary reasons: taxes and unions. You mention that taxes are through the roof in Michigan. Actually, using The Tax Foundations 2007 State Business Tax Climate Index findings, Michigan ranks 27th in business taxes (Ohio, BTW, is 49th). Texas ranks 6th. Ask your aunt if she were a business, would she want to be in a state with the 6th lowest taxes or the 27th? As for unions, Texas is a Right to Work state, Michigan is not. Workers in Texas are free to join unions, and just as free not to. This is another big factor in deciding where you want your business.

And what is the impact? Workers at the fully-unionized GM plant make $26.50 to $33.50 an hour, plus benefits, which gives them a burdened labor rate of about $81 per hour per worker (PHPW). Toyota will be paying non-union labor $21 to $25 an hour with benefits, and will have a PHPW rate of about $35, but that's just an estimate. So it's probably true to say that Toyota is going to be offering less pay and benefits to its workers, but the key word here is "workers". $25/hour isn't as good as $33.50, but it's a whole lot better than $0.

The reason that Michigan is losing jobs and not getting new ones has nothing to do with CEO salaries or how much GM is making, or jobs moving to Mexico. It's all about their corporate tax rate structures and Right to Work policies.