Whites haven't "given" to blacks..................

[nhboy (Premo)]

Where's The Gratitude?

"Taking Buchanan's errors one by one:

(1) Who provided welfare, food stamps, etc.? Not white people, but the US government, and through it, the taxpayers. Blacks pay taxes. They helped to provide those programs. To imagine that they did not is, quite literally, to write them out of the citizenry.

(2) To whom were welfare, food stamps, etc., provided? Not to blacks, but to Americans of all ethnicities. Annoyingly, I can't find historical data, but I believe that in general, while the proportion of black families on welfare was considerably higher than the proportion of white families on welfare (reflecting higher black poverty rates), the number of white families on welfare was generally higher. This was true in 1993, for which I did find data; the number of black families had edged slightly ahead of whites by 1995. In any case, the point is: welfare was not given to blacks; it was given to people who met certain race-neutral criteria, and that included an awful lot of whites. The same is true of Pell Grants: they are given to needy students of whatever ethnicity. Ditto food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8, and so on and so forth."

Obsidian Wings: Where's The Gratitude?

[Lenny]

Originally Posted by nhboy

Where's The Gratitude?

"Taking Buchanan's errors one by one:

(1) Who provided welfare, food stamps, etc.? Not white people, but the US government, and through it, the taxpayers. Blacks pay taxes. They helped to provide those programs. To imagine that they did not is, quite literally, to write them out of the citizenry.

(2) To whom were welfare, food stamps, etc., provided? Not to blacks, but to Americans of all ethnicities. Annoyingly, I can't find historical data, but I believe that in general, while the proportion of black families on welfare was considerably higher than the proportion of white families on welfare (reflecting higher black poverty rates), the number of white families on welfare was generally higher. This was true in 1993, for which I did find data; the number of black families had edged slightly ahead of whites by 1995. In any case, the point is: welfare was not given to blacks; it was given to people who met certain race-neutral criteria, and that included an awful lot of whites. The same is true of Pell Grants: they are given to needy students of whatever ethnicity. Ditto food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8, and so on and so forth."

Obsidian Wings: Where's The Gratitude?

Last time I looked, the Federal government did nothing without white men agreeing to it. And if I'm not mistaken, all those programs being discussed were initiated by and approved by a majority of the white men in Congress. So Obsidian wings better learn his history before trying to out-point Pat.

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by nhboy

(1) Who provided welfare, food stamps, etc.? Not white people, but the US government, and through it, the taxpayers. Blacks pay taxes. They helped to provide those programs. To imagine that they did not is, quite literally, to write them out of the citizenry.

Actually, since there are significantly more whites in this country than blacks, and the median income of whites is greater than blacks, it is correct to say that predominantly whites provided these assistance programs through their tax dollars.

(2) To whom were welfare, food stamps, etc., provided? Not to blacks, but to Americans of all ethnicities. Annoyingly, I can't find historical data, but I believe that in general, while the proportion of black families on welfare was considerably higher than the proportion of white families on welfare (reflecting higher black poverty rates), the number of white families on welfare was generally higher. This was true in 1993, for which I did find data; the number of black families had edged slightly ahead of whites by 1995. In any case, the point is: welfare was not given to blacks; it was given to people who met certain race-neutral criteria, and that included an awful lot of whites. The same is true of Pell Grants: they are given to needy students of whatever ethnicity. Ditto food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8, and so on and so forth."

This is where I took issue with Buchanan's statements - the stats show that more whites receive assistance than blacks, in whole numbers and not as a percentage of their population.

However, it's fairly obvious to me that government assistance creates dependency, regardless of race: the more people are given and taken care of, the more they expect and the less likely they are to provide for themselves.

So what Pat Buchanan is really lauding is creating a dependency class, which is nothing to be proud of.

[PsyOps]

Buchanan may not have the best approach to these things but here is the bottom line fact…

- White man brought blacks to America.

- White man enslaved the black people

- White man realized the error of their ways and made slavery illegal

- White man realized another error of their ways and realized blacks deserved their civil rights and same freedoms under the Constitution

- White man also realized, because of decades of deplorable treatment to the black community that they needed certain financial programs to give them “a leg up”

Rev. Wright is a product of these blessings by becoming 1) A Christian (something he probably would have never seen with the alternative) and 2) a very successful and, no doubt, RICH minister. Most of us can look at our success and realize it was through very tough times and countless failures that our success or born. Rev. Wright chooses to focus on the past rather than that past that brought him so much success; success that he otherwise would have never seen.

The White man was definitely an evil people through slavery. But over the generations the white man has learned to listen and change their hearts. It’s fair to put the blame on the white man for what happened hundreds of years ago; but it’s equally fair to give credit to the generations of white people (that number in the millions) that died fighting for the black mans’ freedoms; that have worked so hard to ensure the same natural freedoms the white man enjoy are also entitled to the black man.

When you sum all this up, for the good and the bad, for those that suffered and those that have succeeded under the growth of this country the white man was integral for the why we have a black community. The white man had to grow and learn to come to certain realities; and we have. We’re no longer the bad guys. The only bad guy is yourself and refusal to capitalize on American opportunity. While Rev. Wright is perpetuating the belief blacks can’t succeed as long as the white man exists, others like C. Rice, C Powell, and countless others are the real stories of this country. Their successes marginalize the garbage being spewed by Wright.

This is what I think Buchanan’s point is.

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

- White man realized the error of their ways and made slavery illegal

- White man realized another error of their ways and realized blacks deserved their civil rights and same freedoms under the Constitution

- White man also realized, because of decades of deplorable treatment to the black community that they needed certain financial programs to give them “a leg up”

This line of argument reminds me of Chris Rock's routine where he makes fun of black men who boast, "I take care of my kids!" to which the reply is, "You're SUPPOSED to, ya dumb %#(%@#)!"

The whites who kept slaves and denied blacks basic human rights didn't really "realize the error of their ways". Actually, other whites realized the injustice and savagery of treating fellow humans as livestock, and FORCED the rest to comply. And the ignorant didn't nuckle under without a fight - Civil War, KKK, Birmingham, Little Rock, etc, etc.

Pat Buchanan stuck his foot in his mouth, then tried to correct it by opening wider and sticking the other foot in his mouth. He is part of the problem, not the solution.

[PsyOps]

Originally Posted by vraiblonde

This line of argument reminds me of Chris Rock's routine where he makes fun of black men who boast, "I take care of my kids!" to which the reply is, "You're SUPPOSED to, ya dumb %#(%@#)!"

The whites who kept slaves and denied blacks basic human rights didn't really "realize the error of their ways". Actually, other whites realized the injustice and savagery of treating fellow humans as livestock, and FORCED the rest to comply. And the ignorant didn't nuckle under without a fight - Civil War, KKK, Birmingham, Little Rock, etc, etc.

Pat Buchanan stuck his foot in his mouth, then tried to correct it by opening wider and sticking the other foot in his mouth. He is part of the problem, not the solution.

I don't suppose part of the solution is for all those Rev Wright forgiving apologists to stop the racist rant every time a white person opens their mouth about the subject.

I personally think it's time for the black community to stop with the racist hate mentality and realize that even though their ancestors had to tolerate unimaginable cruelty it’s over and it’s time to forgive and move on. Folks like Buchanan and myself are fed up with cutting our feet on eggshells; worried that we would be deemed a racist for calling someone like Obama articulate or smart. It’s getting pathetically ridiculous. We’re also fed up with so many in the black community that don’t realize how blessed they are to live in this country and that the alternative is a heck of a lot worse (which is Buchanan’s point). When you have so many black people have become this nation’s mark for its opportunities and success we still have people stuck in the American stone ages (like Rev. Wright) perpetuating the hate.

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

I don't suppose part of the solution is for all those Rev Wright forgiving apologists to stop the racist rant every time a white person opens their mouth about the subject.

He's part of the problem, too.

The only difference between Buchanon and Wright is Buchanon is about an inch taller.

[RadioPatrol]

Who gets welfare? Despite prevailing stereotype, whites, not blacks, collect greatest share of public aid dollars

Despite prevailing stereotype, Whites, not Blacks, collect greatest share of public aid dollars

SAY the word "welfare" and immediately the image of the lazy Black wellare queen who breeds for profit surfaces in the minds of those who have come to believe the hideous stereotype. It is a myth that persists despite government figures and authoritative studies showing that Whites overwhelmingly reap the lion's share of the dole.

Welfare: A White Secret

Come on, my fellow white folks, we have something to confess. No, nothing to do with age spots or those indoor-tanning creams we use to get us through the | winter without looking like the final stages of TB. Nor am I talking about the fact that we all go home and practice funky dance moves behind drawn shades. Out with it, friends, the biggest secret known to whites since the invention of powdered rouge: welfare is a white program. Yep. At least it's no more black than Vanilla Ice is a fair rendition of classic urban rap.

The numbers go like this: 61% of the population receiving welfare, listed as "means-tested cash assistance" by the Census Bureau, is identified as white, while only 33% is identified as black. These numbers notwithstanding, the Republican version of "political correctness" has given us "welfare cheat" as a new term for African American since the early days of Ronald Reagan. Yet if the Lakers were 61% white and on a winning streak, would we be calling them a "black team"?

Wait a minute, I can hear my neighbors say, we're not as slow at math as the Asian Americans like to think. There's still a glaring disproportion there. African Americans are only 12% of the population as a whole, at least according to the census count, yet they're 33% of the welfare population -- surely evidence of a shocking addiction to the dole.

But we're forgetting something. Welfare is a program for poor people, very poor people. African Americans are three times as likely as whites to fall below the poverty level and hence to have a chance of qualifying for welfare benefits. If we look at the kind of persons most likely to be eligible -- single mothers living in poverty with children under 18 to support -- we find little difference in welfare participation by race: 74.6% of African Americans in such dire straits are on welfare, compared with 64.5% of the poor white single moms.

JTR
“Common Sense Please”
If the black population is approximately 12% and the white population is approximately 70%, your statistics show that the black population has a significantly higher ratio of black people on welfare than white. If our population is approximately 300 million and 12% is black, that means that 13% of black people are on welfare while only 4% of white people are on welfare.

You also left out the fact that white people, on the average, tend to have more education then black people and therefore, higher paying jobs. With the higher incomes, white people tend to pay more in taxes, which covers social programs. Do the math and white people are, on the average, paying for more than they receive.

I do not know the intention of your article, but I believe it is clearly designed to be biased without alternate stats. Clearly, your article needs more information (i.e. socioeconomic relevance, education statistics, income statistics, unemployment statistics, etc.) to paint an honest picture.

Biased? I believe so.

Stacey2 wrote:

Average welfare child is white, has one sibling and unmarried mother, gov't statistics show
Contrary to popular belief, there are more White children on welfare than Black children, according to statistics from the Census Bureau and Department of Health and Human Services.
Nearly 9 million children on welfare in 1995 were White, the statistics show, compared to 4.8 million Black children.
The typical child on Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) is White and lives in the rural South, Appalachia or the downtrodden areas of major cities.
The statistics also show that the average child on welfare is 7 years old, his mother is 29 and single, and the child has one brother or sister.
Their welfare parent qualifies for only the lowest-paying jobs in the workforce.
Despite prevailing stereotype, Whites, not Blacks, collect greatest share of public aid dollars
SAY the word "welfare" and immediately the image of the lazy Black wellare queen who breeds for profit surfaces in the minds of those who have come to believe the hideous stereotype. It is a myth that persists despite government figures and authoritative studies showing that Whites overwhelmingly reap the lion's share of the dole.
The image of the Black "welfare cheat," public aid advocates say, is based on misconceptions about poor minorities. The notion, they say, comes from society's resentment of seemingly ablebodied people getting paid for doing nothing.
It's clear that welfare has a Black face," says Dr. Mary Frances Berry, chairperson of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights. "Whenever you see television or news shows about welfare, only occasionally will they show someone who is not African-American," she says. "The assumption is that when you speak of welfare, you're speaking of Black people." The facts, however, reveal an entirely different picture that underscores the difference between the rhetoric that would have one believe that most welfare recipients are Black and the reality that the majority of them are White.

[cwo_ghwebb]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

I don't suppose part of the solution is for all those Rev Wright forgiving apologists to stop the racist rant every time a white person opens their mouth about the subject.

I personally think it's time for the black community to stop with the racist hate mentality and realize that even though their ancestors had to tolerate unimaginable cruelty it’s over and it’s time to forgive and move on. Folks like Buchanan and myself are fed up with cutting our feet on eggshells; worried that we would be deemed a racist for calling someone like Obama articulate or smart. It’s getting pathetically ridiculous. We’re also fed up with so many in the black community that don’t realize how blessed they are to live in this country and that the alternative is a heck of a lot worse (which is Buchanan’s point). When you have so many black people have become this nation’s mark for its opportunities and success we still have people stuck in the American stone ages (like Rev. Wright) perpetuating the hate.

Thank you. Well stated.