Good news for Dems: GOP is falling apart

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by AndyMarquisLIVE

I'd rather talk about McCain's pastor.

Who is McCain's pastor? I was unaware he even went to church.

[Pete (Premo)]

Originally Posted by AndyMarquisLIVE

I'd rather talk about McCain's pastor. I mean, for the last month (if not longer), you guys have about Rev. Wright. I was thinking you'd want to have a similar discussion about McCain's pastor (from whom he sought an endorsement).

Sure, lets talk about it. Better yet lets compare Hagee and Wright.

Hagee is not and has never been McCain's pastor, he is a pastor who leads a large church and McCain sought his endorsement foolishly by not vetting his on the record comments.

Wright "was" Obama's pastor until he retired.

Hagee has never had a long close relationship with McCain.

Wright had had a close personal relationship for 20 years, performing his wedding, baptising his children and being Obama's self proclaimed "spiritual advisor".

Wright showed disgust of America and American government by saying "God Damn America, United States of KKK and that the government created AIDS to kill off blacks"

Hagee said the Catholic Church is the "Great Whore", has been accused of anti semitism, that the Quran dictates Muslims to kill Christians and Jews and that the destruction of New Orleans was the work of God because of the decadence and a Gay Parade scheduled for that same day.

After the comments of Wright came to light Obama gave a speech and said "I can no more repudiate Reverend Wright than I could repudiate my own white grandmother". He went on to attempt to explain why Wright made those remarks by framing Wrights life. He went on to contradict his earlier denials that he knew about the comments.

After the comments of Hagee came to light McCain said

At a town hall meeting in Houston on video

“Yesterday, Pastor John Hagee endorsed my candidacy for president in San Antonio, Texas. However, in no way did I intend for his endorsement to suggest that I in turn agree with all of Pastor Hagee’s views, which I obviously do not,"

In an interview with the AP

I categorically reject and repudiate any statement that was made that was anti-Catholic, both in intent and nature."

This week with George Stephanopoulos McCain said that it was

"probably a mistake" to court and accept Hagee's endorsement, although he's still glad to have it

IMO the comparison of Wright and Hagee is apples and oranges.

1. Wright bad mouthed America and delved into politics, not other religions he had a problem with like Hagee did.

2. Wright had a close personal relationship for 20 years with Obama as his pastor, Hagee did not have a close personal relationship with McCain, wasn't his pastor.

3. Wrights comments were not repudiated immediately, Obama first said "he never heard them" then tried to frame them and explain them, then he repudiated the comments but refused to repudiate Wright. McCain immediately repudiated Hagee's comments and said it was a mistake to seek his endorsement.

McCain is guilty of not properly vetting people he seeks endorsements from. He is also a putz for not personally repudiating Hagee and in fact saying despite it was a mistake he is glad to have the endorsement.

[AndyMarquisLIVE (Premo)]

Originally Posted by This_person

And, how do we know what Barry thinks, and how he would govern? We have to look at his long-term associates, people he claims as close to him; and, how he has led and how he has voted when given the chance to vote.

I have a friend who believes George Bush is the mastermind behind 9-11. Do I believe them? No. I've told them several times that they can't convince me the government set up 9-11 using some baseless kooky conspiracy theory. They also told me that the government did create AIDS. Do I believe that? No. I told them to back their up with fact.

So, if I run for President, are you saying that it should be front and center what one of my friends thinks about politics?

If so, I say you are the kook.

Like I said, I don't support anyone. I don't like any of these Presidential candidates. I just have never seen the big deal with Wright. You righties, who have lately been drinking Clinton-flavored kool-aid, are making a big deal out of nothing IMO.

Originally Posted by Pete

Sure, lets talk about it. Better yet lets compare Hagee and Wright.

Hagee is not and has never been McCain's pastor, he is a pastor who leads a large church and McCain sought his endorsement foolishly by not vetting his on the record comments.

Wright "was" Obama's pastor until he retired.

Hagee has never had a long close relationship with McCain.

Wright had had a close personal relationship for 20 years, performing his wedding, baptising his children and being Obama's self proclaimed "spiritual advisor".

Wright showed disgust of America and American government by saying "God Damn America, United States of KKK and that the government created AIDS to kill off blacks"

Hagee said the Catholic Church is the "Great Whore", has been accused of anti semitism, that the Quran dictates Muslims to kill Christians and Jews and that the destruction of New Orleans was the work of God because of the decadence and a Gay Parade scheduled for that same day.

After the comments of Wright came to light Obama gave a speech and said "I can no more repudiate Reverend Wright than I could repudiate my own white grandmother". He went on to attempt to explain why Wright made those remarks by framing Wrights life. He went on to contradict his earlier denials that he knew about the comments.

After the comments of Hagee came to light McCain said

At a town hall meeting in Houston on video


In an interview with the AP


This week with George Stephanopoulos McCain said that it was




IMO the comparison of Wright and Hagee is apples and oranges.

1. Wright bad mouthed America and delved into politics, not other religions he had a problem with like Hagee did.

2. Wright had a close personal relationship for 20 years with Obama as his pastor, Hagee did not have a close personal relationship with McCain, wasn't his pastor.

3. Wrights comments were not repudiated immediately, Obama first said "he never heard them" then tried to frame them and explain them, then he repudiated the comments but refused to repudiate Wright. McCain immediately repudiated Hagee's comments and said it was a mistake to seek his endorsement.

McCain is guilty of not properly vetting people he seeks endorsements from. He is also a putz for not personally repudiating Hagee and in fact saying despite it was a mistake he is glad to have the endorsement.

Pete... every point you made about McCain and Hagee is correct, but meaningless. The Republicans foolishly lowered the bar on this subject, and there's no way they are going to be able to control the issue. Republicans are going to roll out the "He never went to his church!", "He hardly knows the guy!", "He was never married by the guy!" defenses and they are going to be akin to the Maginot Line. The issue is going to be "affiliation with" be it for 20 years or 20 minutes... it isn't going to make any difference once the attacks start.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Bruzilla

Pete... every point you made about McCain and Hagee is correct, but meaningless. The Republicans foolishly lowered the bar on this subject, and there's no way they are going to be able to control the issue. Republicans are going to roll out the "He never went to his church!", "He hardly knows the guy!", "He was never married by the guy!" defenses and they are going to be akin to the Maginot Line. The issue is going to be "affiliation with" be it for 20 years or 20 minutes... it isn't going to make any difference once the attacks start.

...goodie. Then, you can rest easy. Obama is a cinch lock.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by AndyMarquisLIVE

I'd rather talk about McCain's pastor. I mean, for the last month (if not longer), you guys have about Rev. Wright. I was thinking you'd want to have a similar discussion about McCain's pastor (from whom he sought an endorsement).

...would be...? Does McCain's pastor have a name? A church?

[Pete (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Bruzilla

Pete... every point you made about McCain and Hagee is correct, but meaningless. The Republicans foolishly lowered the bar on this subject, and there's no way they are going to be able to control the issue. Republicans are going to roll out the "He never went to his church!", "He hardly knows the guy!", "He was never married by the guy!" defenses and they are going to be akin to the Maginot Line. The issue is going to be "affiliation with" be it for 20 years or 20 minutes... it isn't going to make any difference once the attacks start.

Dude, it is already done. How many times have you heard "Reverend Wright" on the news compared to "Reverend Hagee"? Wright dominated the news for weeks, Obama even had to make a special speech about it. Hagee was barely mentioned in passing a couple times more as an equal time deal. The media and the democrats both knew the Hagee deal wouldn't float because they already came to the conclusions I did above.

Your point is moot because you make the assumption the democrats are honor bound to not tread in certain areas. They are not and have no qualms going after anything they can find out. If they find out McCain spoke in tongues and swung rattle snakes around his head on Sundays you can bet your ass they would find a way to use it complete with animations and reenactments of the serpent worship. You also keep saying "Republicans" started this whole thing when it was in fact the media that opened this stink bomb. Republicans had to make some comments when asked because it was HUGE and I think they were very measured in their comments.

McCain has no doubt a bunch of character stuff in store for him. The difference is he has a fairly long record of arguably fine service in the senate to fall back on and that little POW hero thing, Obama doesn't. No one in Oklahoma, Georgia, Wyoming or Idaho gives a shiat about Obama's record in the Illinois Senate.

Originally Posted by Pete

Dude, it is already done. How many times have you heard "Reverend Wright" on the news compared to "Reverend Hagee"? Wright dominated the news for weeks, Obama even had to make a special speech about it. Hagee was barely mentioned in passing a couple times more as an equal time deal. The media and the democrats both knew the Hagee deal wouldn't float because they already came to the conclusions I did above.

Your point is moot because you make the assumption the democrats are honor bound to not tread in certain areas. They are not and have no qualms going after anything they can find out. If they find out McCain spoke in tongues and swung rattle snakes around his head on Sundays you can bet your ass they would find a way to use it complete with animations and reenactments of the serpent worship. You also keep saying "Republicans" started this whole thing when it was in fact the media that opened this stink bomb. Republicans had to make some comments when asked because it was HUGE and I think they were very measured in their comments.

McCain has no doubt a bunch of character stuff in store for him. The difference is he has a fairly long record of arguably fine service in the senate to fall back on and that little POW hero thing, Obama doesn't. No one in Oklahoma, Georgia, Wyoming or Idaho gives a shiat about Obama's record in the Illinois Senate.

The scrutiny of McCain hasn't even started yet. You are going to be hearing plenty about Hagee and Parsley in the coming months.

[aps45819 (Premo)]

Originally Posted by AndyMarquisLIVE

I have a friend who believes George Bush is the mastermind behind 9-11.

those guys are a hoot, they'll claim he's the 911 master mind and then tell you he's incredibly stupid

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Bruzilla

The scrutiny of McCain hasn't even started yet. You are going to be hearing plenty about Hagee and Parsley in the coming months.

...I got news for you; Parsley and Hagee, if anything, are gonna help McCain with religious conservatives.