Good news for Dems: GOP is falling apart

[This_person]

Originally Posted by AndyMarquisLIVE

I have a friend who believes George Bush is the mastermind behind 9-11. Do I believe them? No. I've told them several times that they can't convince me the government set up 9-11 using some baseless kooky conspiracy theory. They also told me that the government did create AIDS. Do I believe that? No. I told them to back their up with fact.

Well, would you put this person on your campaign as your advisor (say, security, or governmental affairs, or something like that)? Would you stand up and denounce his statements immediately? Would you donate tens of thousands of dollars to the institution that he runs that espouses his belief? And then claim that, though no one else denies he believes this and that the institution's foundation is this type of idea, that you didn't know that was what he believes - what you funded?

If you could show by that that you don't agree with him, I'd say let's look at what else is on your plate and ignore your friend completely. If you did these things, I'd have to think you agreed with him and would only deny him as a political ploy.

Like I said, I don't support anyone. I don't like any of these Presidential candidates. I just have never seen the big deal with Wright. You righties, who have lately been drinking Clinton-flavored kool-aid, are making a big deal out of nothing IMO.

Context, Andy.

[This_person]

Originally Posted by Bruzilla

Pete... every point you made about McCain and Hagee is correct, but meaningless. The Republicans foolishly lowered the bar on this subject, and there's no way they are going to be able to control the issue. Republicans are going to roll out the "He never went to his church!", "He hardly knows the guy!", "He was never married by the guy!" defenses and they are going to be akin to the Maginot Line. The issue is going to be "affiliation with" be it for 20 years or 20 minutes... it isn't going to make any difference once the attacks start.

Well, unless of course people THINK

Does anyone else think that David Axlerod, Obama's adviser, looks like Hitler? I watched him on Fox News Sunday, and if you trim the mustache...

Originally Posted by This_person

Well, unless of course people THINK

And there's where the plan falls through. "People" don't think.

[This_person]

Originally Posted by Bruzilla

And there's where the plan falls through. "People" don't think.

By saying that, and saying that the more liberal is the better it is for conservatives, are you admitting that you recognize Barry is horrifically liberal, has no leadership experience, and that there is an enormous difference between McCain getting (seeking) an endorsement from someone and Barry supporting and following a pastor who's a racist anti-American fool?

Are you admitting you're just playing Devil's advocate with constantly fighting against the truth?

Originally Posted by This_person

By saying that, and saying that the more liberal is the better it is for conservatives, are you admitting that you recognize Barry is horrifically liberal, has no leadership experience, and that there is an enormous difference between McCain getting (seeking) an endorsement from someone and Barry supporting and following a pastor who's a racist anti-American fool?

Are you admitting you're just playing Devil's advocate with constantly fighting against the truth?

I admit to all of that... and always have. But what you fail to take into account is what I think isn't relevent. The point I keep trying to get across is that about half the country does not see Obama as horrifically liberal. They see him as normal and an everyday guy. I think the guy does have some leadership experience, not as much as others but he has some. Is there a difference between McCain's relationship with Hagee and Obama's with Wright? Absolutely! But that's not going to matter once Democrats start looking for ways to attack McCain. They are not going to differentiate between a 20 year relationship and a 20 minute one. They aren't going to care about the difference in relationships... they are going to say what's important is the relationship and not the duration, and that point will sell. They made the case that Clinton lied about sex... they'll make this case as well.

[This_person]

Originally Posted by Bruzilla

I admit to all of that... and always have. But what you fail to take into account is what I think isn't relevent. The point I keep trying to get across is that about half the country does not see Obama as horrifically liberal. They see him as normal and an everyday guy. I think the guy does have some leadership experience, not as much as others but he has some. Is there a difference between McCain's relationship with Hagee and Obama's with Wright? Absolutely! But that's not going to matter once Democrats start looking for ways to attack McCain. They are not going to differentiate between a 20 year relationship and a 20 minute one. They aren't going to care about the difference in relationships... they are going to say what's important is the relationship and not the duration, and that point will sell. They made the case that Clinton lied about sex... they'll make this case as well.

Well, Clinton did lie about sex!

So, why do you argue the case you don't believe in? Why do you proclaim him to be middle of the road when he's not? Why do you argue that Hagee/McCain is even remotely similar to Wright/Obama when you know they're not similar?

[vraiblonde]

Interruption:

Every time I see this thread title, it cracks me up. Because, you know, the Democrats are so solid and unified.

Originally Posted by This_person

Well, Clinton did lie about sex!

So, why do you argue the case you don't believe in? Why do you proclaim him to be middle of the road when he's not? Why do you argue that Hagee/McCain is even remotely similar to Wright/Obama when you know they're not similar?

Oy vey! One more time... it doesn't matter what I believe. The point that I am making is that this message will sell with the Democrats and the MSM. I mean of course it doesn't sell with me, but I am neither making or accepting the premise. The Democrats aren't going to try to convince you and I that they are the same, but they will convince others.

My point all along has been that for decades even the Dems did not attack individual religious types. They would go after national figures like Falwell and Robertson just as we would go after Jackson and Sharpton, but the local guys were hands-off. The Republicans lowered the bar this go around to make any religious guy a target, which played great for a while against Wright, but any Republican is going to have connections to a lot more religious types than any Democrat, so that was a foolish line of attack in my judgement. Even worse, our pundits couldn't stop with just attacking what Wright said. No, they had to go further and further off the edge and start attacking how much money he's made, his house, his cars, etc. They made all that an issue too, and all of that is going to come right back around at Republicans.

So when ABC news has a film crew outside of Parsley's million-dollar home, and showing video of the guy's fancy business jet, few are going to hear that McCain just went to a couple of his services, they are going to hear "Parsley, who Mccain once called a spritual leader, lives in this million-dollar home that's next to the million-dollar home he built for his parents, and flies around in this $500,000 luxury jet. Parlsey has repeatedly called for the extinction of all muslims and the eradication of non-Christian religions, and McCain has refused to ..." Once those stories start, trying to say "but he didn't know him for 20 years!" isn;t going to mean a thing to many people.

[Pete (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Bruzilla

Oy vey! One more time... it doesn't matter what I believe. The point that I am making is that this message will sell with the Democrats and the MSM. I mean of course it doesn't sell with me, but I am neither making or accepting the premise. The Democrats aren't going to try to convince you and I that they are the same, but they will convince others.

My point all along has been that for decades even the Dems did not attack individual religious types. They would go after national figures like Falwell and Robertson just as we would go after Jackson and Sharpton, but the local guys were hands-off. The Republicans lowered the bar this go around to make any religious guy a target, which played great for a while against Wright, but any Republican is going to have connections to a lot more religious types than any Democrat, so that was a foolish line of attack in my judgement. Even worse, our pundits couldn't stop with just attacking what Wright said. No, they had to go further and further off the edge and start attacking how much money he's made, his house, his cars, etc. They made all that an issue too, and all of that is going to come right back around at Republicans.

So when ABC news has a film crew outside of Parsley's million-dollar home, and showing video of the guy's fancy business jet, few are going to hear that McCain just went to a couple of his services, they are going to hear "Parsley, who Mccain once called a spritual leader, lives in this million-dollar home that's next to the million-dollar home he built for his parents, and flies around in this $500,000 luxury jet. Parlsey has repeatedly called for the extinction of all muslims and the eradication of non-Christian religions, and McCain has refused to ..." Once those stories start, trying to say "but he didn't know him for 20 years!" isn;t going to mean a thing to many people.

One more time Bru

REPUBLICANS DO NOT CONTROL THE MEDIA. THE MEDIA MADE WRIGHT A BIG DEAL, NOT REPUBLICANS.