Obama Memorial Day Speech

Gateway Pundit: Zombie Time!... Obama Sees Dead People at New Mexico Speech (Video)

I was busy playing on the S.S. Bruzilla yesterday and missed this speech, but Obama flubbed a line at the start of it so it's making all the rounds of the conservative blogs where folks are all thrilled to hear Obama say something stupid... as if McCain hasn't been tripping on his tongue for weeks,

Aside from the gaffe, I found this speech very interesting for two reasons. The first is that Obama says, honestly, that there is no way that he can know the pain of serving in the military, being in battle, losing a loved one, etc., which is a contradition of Clinton Political Rule #1 - Feel Their Pain. Hillary would be up there saying how she understands how people feel (even though she doesn't) and Bill would be biting that lip and saying it. So, it'll be interesting to see how this dynamic plays out. Which is better - "I feel your pain" or "there's no way I can feel your pain".

The second interesting item was his pledge to bring home "all the POWs and MIAs". This is the first time I have heard a Prez nominee mention bringing home POWs in a very long time. This has to be a direct shot at McCain who was one of the guys pushing for closing down the hunt for POWs and calling for normalizing relations with Vietnam. This should be another interesting dynamic to watch.

[pcjohnnyb (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Bruzilla

Gateway Pundit: Zombie Time!... Obama Sees Dead People at New Mexico Speech (Video)

I was busy playing on the S.S. Bruzilla yesterday and missed this speech, but Obama flubbed a line at the start of it so it's making all the rounds of the conservative blogs where folks are all thrilled to hear Obama say something stupid... as if McCain hasn't been tripping on his tongue for weeks,

Aside from the gaffe, I found this speech very interesting for two reasons. The first is that Obama says, honestly, that there is no way that he can know the pain of serving in the military, being in battle, losing a loved one, etc., which is a contradition of Clinton Political Rule #1 - Feel Their Pain. Hillary would be up there saying how she understands how people feel (even though she doesn't) and Bill would be biting that lip and saying it. So, it'll be interesting to see how this dynamic plays out. Which is better - "I feel your pain" or "there's no way I can feel your pain".

The second interesting item was his pledge to bring home "all the POWs and MIAs". This is the first time I have heard a Prez nominee mention bringing home POWs in a very long time. This has to be a direct shot at McCain who was one of the guys pushing for closing down the hunt for POWs and calling for normalizing relations with Vietnam. This should be another interesting dynamic to watch.

They are MIA for a reason...they cannot be found, so how is it we are bringing them home? Same with the POWs...if there was a reasonable way to rescue them, it is done. Now its time to check out the link (for me) because from your input, it is apparent that Obama is talking out his ass again.

Originally Posted by pcjohnnyb

They are MIA for a reason...they cannot be found, so how is it we are bringing them home? Same with the POWs...if there was a reasonable way to rescue them, it is done. Now its time to check out the link (for me) because from your input, it is apparent that Obama is talking out his ass again.

MIAs have always been an issue as we can negotiate with countries to send search teams to combat areas or crash sites and recover remains, so his call for bringing MIAs home was nothing new. But the mention of POWs is a whole different matter. There was lots of allegations in the 1980s about POWs from Vietnam and Korea being incarcerated in those countries and the Soviet Union or China. There was call after call for government action to get these men back, and aside from giving Hollywood movie ideas they got nowhere because some politicians actively squelched these efforts... McCain being one of them. McCain said that all these reports of POWs were false... that everyone was home, and that there was no reason to keep making this an issue.

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by Bruzilla

McCain said that all these reports of POWs were false... that everyone was home, and that there was no reason to keep making this an issue.

How do you know that's not the case?

At this point, they'd have been there for almost 40 years. What purpose would it serve for for those countries to hold a prisoner that long?

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by vraiblonde

How do you know that's not the case?

At this point, they'd have been there for almost 40 years. What purpose would it serve for for those countries to hold a prisoner that long?

...is that the whole MIA thing is a very big deal and sore spot for lots of vets and their families because back when it really mattered, when they might still be alive, the government didn't bend over backwards to try and verify and look and demand as much as it might. So, this is a symbol, a way of keeping the memory of a lost loved one or comrade alive and also to not forget how the government maybe betrayed a trust.

So, for McCain to be saying 'it's over' when he came home and 2,500 others are MIA, it sticks in the craw of anyone wanting to keep the idea and the symbols and the memories alive.

Originally Posted by vraiblonde

How do you know that's not the case?

At this point, they'd have been there for almost 40 years. What purpose would it serve for for those countries to hold a prisoner that long?

In all honesty I don't know that that isn't the case. What I do know is there were lots of credible reports back then. Could they be valid or false... how do you know unless you investigate them? Folks like McCain squelched even the investigations. Why would a guy who was a former POW do that? You would think he would have moved heaven and Earth if there was even the remotest chance that some of our guys were still being held.

To your second point, I've heard reports that a lot of our pilots were taken to the Soviet Union for interrogation on information about aircraft systems, crypto guys were taken, weapons specialists were taken, etc. If someone was found to have special intel value, they got shipped. There has never been an accounting of these men. We know they got captured, fellow POWs reported them having been shipped off to other countries, so what happened to them? It would sure be embarassing to the Soviets/Russians, Chinese, and others to acknowledge they had taken these men after decades of denying such action. Even if these men were killed after their interogations, I think the families would still like to have the remains returned. So they may not still be prisoners, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't pursue getting their remains back.

But the Russians, Chinese, and others are never going to admit that they illegally held these guys, and guys like McCain are going to take a lot of heat if it's ever revealed that these guys were still alive in camps when the pols were busy denying their situation.

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...is that the whole MIA thing is a very big deal and sore spot for lots of vets and their families because back when it really mattered, when they might still be alive, the government didn't bend over backwards to try and verify and look and demand as much as it might. So, this is a symbol, a way of keeping the memory of a lost loved one or comrade alive and also to not forget how the government maybe betrayed a trust.

So, for McCain to be saying 'it's over' when he came home and 2,500 others are MIA, it sticks in the craw of anyone wanting to keep the idea and the symbols and the memories alive.

I think it is more than a symbol. Even if the POWs who got shipped to Russia were killed decades ago, their families still want their remains repatriated back to the US.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Bruzilla

I think it is more than a symbol. Even if the POWs who got shipped to Russia were killed decades ago, their families still want their remains repatriated back to the US.

...I certainly won't step into this as a point of contention; point is, it is important to a lot people who do not deserve the nation their loved one swore to defend to tell them to just 'get over it'. All the attention whoring that goes on in this nation, least we can do is be sympathetic to those that actually deserve the attention or at least the respect for their lose. These people wore the uniform.

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by Bruzilla

Why would a guy who was a former POW do that?

I don't know - why? Maybe he's a Russian spy and is trying to cover his bosses so he doesn't end up in the gulag?

To your second point, I've heard reports that a lot of our pilots were taken to the Soviet Union for interrogation on information about aircraft systems, crypto guys were taken, weapons specialists were taken, etc.

But that wouldn't do the Soviets any good now - anything a 70s era POW would know about US weapons would be obsolete at this point, wouldn't it?

Even if these men were killed after their interogations, I think the families would still like to have the remains returned.

It's highly doubtful that after almost 40 years there would be any remains to return. Not to put too fine a point on it, but we've seen mass graves in Iraq and Cambodia.

I'm not trying to be unsympathetic to families of MIA/POW, but at what point do you call it a day? I think we can safely say that these men are dead, after all this time. So what does Barack Obama propose to do about them? Bomb the Commies until they fess up? Would a left-liberal really do that?

[Mateo]

It is a sore spot.
I forget the title of the book , but back in the 90s, this book spoke of a number of American, British , French and other allied POWs in camps in eastern Europe following their liberation by Soviet forces who were never returned to their respective countries and instead were forced to accept soviet citizenship and shipped off to the cities of Siberia to "assist " in modernizing the SU. There were also a number of fliers shot down over soviet territory and soldiers kidnapped from west Berlin during the Cold War.
Another book spoke of a Vietnamese camp commander who told his charges that"we could keep you forever". In 1969, the Vietnamese released Spanish members of the French Foreign Legion who had been captured at Dien Ben Phu in '54.
The Vietnamese have always maintained that our captured service members were "war criminals" and hence not entitled to the protection of those who are termed Prisoners of War.
The reasons for their failure to return these men after the Geneva accords range from the above to the failure of Nixon and Kissinger to pay an "indemnity" for our "illegal(sic) war on the North Vietnames. What the truth is I will never know, but since we are having
"trade "relations with the country, I think it only proper that we get a full accounting, period, no if ands or buts.
I don't think Barack is the man for this, but I do think either Paul or Barr would be.