McCain's Secret, Questionable Record

Originally Posted by chernmax

And your continued horsesh!t attacks on McCain's military record are ridiculous and unfounded and just like the retired 4 star General and former Presidential candidate Wesley Clark who made the foolish comment about McCain's military service, NObama threw his ass under the bus, just like we continue to do to you...

You make me laugh. You keep saying how my attacks on McCain are groundless, how you keep proving me wrong, and now you're throwing me under the bus... but you've yet to offer any viable defense against what I've been attacking him on. You just come up, make some insults, and say you've won the argument. Could you be anymore pathetic.

So... let's go through the list again, and you can just make your typical "I don't have to blah, blah, blah" responses to them:

1. McCain's dad ran intergerence for McCain at the USNA that allowed McCain to make it though four years at the USNA being on the Century Club when similar midshipmen got tossed.
2. McCain got orders that are taken by the top 10% of the class when he was 5th from the botton.
3. McCain crashed three aircraft before ever seeing combat.
4. McCain said in a 1973 interview with US News and World Report that after his capture he volunteered to trade military information for medical treatment.
5. McCain gave an offsite interview to Dr. Barral from Cuba in which he bragged about his abilities as a pilot, potential for advancement, and his family's military history in addition to provifing insight into US military command structures.
6. McCain gave several other interviews and made propoganda statements to the Vietnemese.
7. The Navy refused to promote McCain while he was a POW when the policy was to automatically promote POWs when they became elligible for promotion.
8. Despite his claims that he was tortured so badly that he couldn't raise his arms over his head, McCain passes a flight physical and eseat qual and is returned to flight status after being a POW... something that would be impossible for someone who couldn't raise his arms over his head or was severely crippled.
9. The Navy declined to give McCain command of a deploying combat unit and instead only gave him command of a stateside training squadron.
10. McCain got stashed at the Senate instead of going on to a career development billet.

So go ahead smartguy... show me where any of these attacks is wrong. Here, let me save you the trouble of typing your usual BS...

You just hate McCain and you keep making these baseless attacks, and I think you're stupid. There... I schooled you! You might want to read something besides Swank when you're down in mom and dad's basement.
3.

[Severa]

Originally Posted by Bruzilla

You make me laugh. You keep saying how my attacks on McCain are groundless, how you keep proving me wrong, and now you're throwing me under the bus... but you've yet to offer any viable defense against what I've been attacking him on. You just come up, make some insults, and say you've won the argument. Could you be anymore pathetic.

So... let's go through the list again, and you can just make your typical "I don't have to blah, blah, blah" responses to them:

1. McCain's dad ran intergerence for McCain at the USNA that allowed McCain to make it though four years at the USNA being on the Century Club when similar midshipmen got tossed.
2. McCain got orders that are taken by the top 10% of the class when he was 5th from the botton.
3. McCain crashed three aircraft before ever seeing combat.
4. McCain said in a 1973 interview with US News and World Report that after his capture he volunteered to trade military information for medical treatment.
5. McCain gave an offsite interview to Dr. Barral from Cuba in which he bragged about his abilities as a pilot, potential for advancement, and his family's military history in addition to provifing insight into US military command structures.
6. McCain gave several other interviews and made propoganda statements to the Vietnemese.
7. The Navy refused to promote McCain while he was a POW when the policy was to automatically promote POWs when they became elligible for promotion.
8. Despite his claims that he was tortured so badly that he couldn't raise his arms over his head, McCain passes a flight physical and eseat qual and is returned to flight status after being a POW... something that would be impossible for someone who couldn't raise his arms over his head or was severely crippled.
9. The Navy declined to give McCain command of a deploying combat unit and instead only gave him command of a stateside training squadron.
10. McCain got stashed at the Senate instead of going on to a career development billet.

So go ahead smartguy... show me where any of these attacks is wrong. Here, let me save you the trouble of typing your usual BS...

You just hate McCain and you keep making these baseless attacks, and I think you're stupid. There... I schooled you! You might want to read something besides Swank when you're down in mom and dad's basement.
3.

Do you have credible links for every single one of your points?
(and no, Wikipedia doesn't count)

[Bann (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Bruzilla

Once again, some want to act like the Clintonites and just attack the source. There are some details that Klien gets wrong, but his core point is spot on... there is no way that McCain could have been considered for promotion to admiral (actually Commodore at the time) at the time Lehman referenced.

WHERE does Lehman say that McCain was/could have been considered for promotion to admiral?

At a meeting in his Pentagon office in early 1981, Secretary of the Navy John F. Lehman told Capt. John S. McCain III that he was about to attain his life ambition: becoming an admiral.

With Mr. Tower’s encouragement, Mr. McCain declined the prospect of his first admiral’s star to make a run for Congress, saying that he could “do more good there,” Mr. Lehman recalled.

If the next promotion UP would be admiral & John McCain wanted to pursue a life in politics - then he would (in essence) be giving up the attainment of his life ambition to become an admiral. (sounds like his father's dream anyway, not his) Just as he would be declining the prospect of a promotion to admiral if he pursued a career in politics. The author of the hit piece is really stretching just to make a lot of idiotic points out of whole cloth.

But once again, Bruzilla goes around insulting people. For my part, I didn't "just attack the source". I pointed out INACCURACIES in the article. Of which there were many.

[Bann (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Severa

Do you have credible links for every single one of your points?
(and no, Wikipedia doesn't count)

Bruzilla tends to post a lot of his own conjecture. He rarely can provide any type of proof other than hit pieces written by the likes of the blogger on the Daily Kos. Or the likes of Ted Sampley of "Vietnam Vets Against McCain". Throughout the SOMD.com political forums you will find various & sundry posts of Bruzilla's which have been proven wrong many times.

[bcp (Premo)]

Originally Posted by SamSpade

This is stupid. What kind of military service have the Democrats offered us in terms of national leadership? A guy who dodged the draft. A guy who served 5 months as a journalist. And then there's John Kerry.

Obama has never served.

And this article, with very little evidence, disputes the situation whereupon McCain might have made admiral. How many Democrats running ever made it as high as Navy Captain?

It's a tempest in a teapot. It's like disputing someone's second Nobel prize.

all of this is true, but can we honestly only look at candidates that served in the military?
regardless, I dont trust Obama

Originally Posted by Severa

Do you have credible links for every single one of your points?
(and no, Wikipedia doesn't count)

Here's what I do... whenever someone posts something about McCain, or Obama, or Clinton, or Barr... I look it up and look for credible sources. This was how I found out the story about Hillary Clinton sabotaging the Watergate investigation was all BS and made up by a certified loon... that's how I found out that despite all sorts of claims, there is absolutely ZERO evidence that Rev. Wright was giving racist sermons for 20 years, and this is how I found out about McCain.

As I've said before, I voted for McCain in 2000. I was a bigtime McCain supporter, but then I started hearing all rumblings from the Vet and POW communities about his conduct as a POW. Then I saw McCain toss the religious right under the bus, then try to throw the party under the bus by defecting to the Democrats, and I started giving the guy a closer look.

So, if I may make a suggestion, take the list I provided, and dedicate an hour or so Googling all of those "baseless allegations" I made. You'll find plenty of validation... and not using Wiki. Or you can choose to thrive in ignorance and just call people names and deny the truth like some folks on this forum.

[Severa]

Originally Posted by Bruzilla

Here's what I do... whenever someone posts something about McCain, or Obama, or Clinton, or Barr... I look it up and look for credible sources. This was how I found out the story about Hillary Clinton sabotaging the Watergate investigation was all BS and made up by a certified loon... that's how I found out that despite all sorts of claims, there is absolutely ZERO evidence that Rev. Wright was giving racist sermons for 20 years, and this is how I found out about McCain.

As I've said before, I voted for McCain in 2000. I was a bigtime McCain supporter, but then I started hearing all rumblings from the Vet and POW communities about his conduct as a POW. Then I saw McCain toss the religious right under the bus, then try to throw the party under the bus by defecting to the Democrats, and I started giving the guy a closer look.

So, if I may make a suggestion, take the list I provided, and dedicate an hour or so Googling all of those "baseless allegations" I made. You'll find plenty of validation... and not using Wiki. Or you can choose to thrive in ignorance and just call people names and deny the truth like some folks on this forum.

Dude, seriously. Why the hell should I do that?
You're throwing these points out there then when someone asks about it you tell them to 'Google it?'
Give me a break.
And one other thing...
I'm NOT everyone else on this damned forum.
I have NOT been calling you names.
I didn't say these were 'baseless allegations'
All I asked were some links for context.
Don't f**king lump me in with others just because I ask a simple question.

[chernmax]

Originally Posted by Bruzilla

You make me laugh. You keep saying how my attacks on McCain are groundless, how you keep proving me wrong, and now you're throwing me under the bus... but you've yet to offer any viable defense against what I've been attacking him on. You just come up, make some insults, and say you've won the argument. Could you be anymore pathetic.

So... let's go through the list again, and you can just make your typical "I don't have to blah, blah, blah" responses to them:

1. McCain's dad ran intergerence for McCain at the USNA that allowed McCain to make it though four years at the USNA being on the Century Club when similar midshipmen got tossed.
2. McCain got orders that are taken by the top 10% of the class when he was 5th from the botton.
3. McCain crashed three aircraft before ever seeing combat.
4. McCain said in a 1973 interview with US News and World Report that after his capture he volunteered to trade military information for medical treatment.
5. McCain gave an offsite interview to Dr. Barral from Cuba in which he bragged about his abilities as a pilot, potential for advancement, and his family's military history in addition to provifing insight into US military command structures.
6. McCain gave several other interviews and made propoganda statements to the Vietnemese.
7. The Navy refused to promote McCain while he was a POW when the policy was to automatically promote POWs when they became elligible for promotion.
8. Despite his claims that he was tortured so badly that he couldn't raise his arms over his head, McCain passes a flight physical and eseat qual and is returned to flight status after being a POW... something that would be impossible for someone who couldn't raise his arms over his head or was severely crippled.
9. The Navy declined to give McCain command of a deploying combat unit and instead only gave him command of a stateside training squadron.
10. McCain got stashed at the Senate instead of going on to a career development billet.

So go ahead smartguy... show me where any of these attacks is wrong. Here, let me save you the trouble of typing your usual BS...

You just hate McCain and you keep making these baseless attacks, and I think you're stupid. There... I schooled you! You might want to read something besides Swank when you're down in mom and dad's basement.
3.

Sorry I was going to address your dumbass remarks but my mommy just brought down to the basement some cookies and milk...

You're a moron!!!

[RangerJohn]

Just for the record, when John Lehmann was SecNav, he did have some pull. He sent back the entire Captain's List back in 1987 and disbanded the selection board. He might not have had that cachet early in his term as SecNav, but he sure did at the end of his tenure.

WASHINGTON TALK: THE NAVY; Lehman Packs His Bag, Abrasiveness Intact But No Resentments - New York Times

[SamSpade]

And I'm repeating what I said before. Tempest in a teapot.

The POINT of the article being disputed is whether he was ever, ever even being considered for the position of Admiral. There's strong conjecture that it could not have happened. There's some indication it might have.

So the hell what? You actually have to accomplish a *little* in life to even come close to "being considered" for an admiralty. While several might want to poke holes in his military career, from my short reading it took considerable character to endure what he did, and achieve what he's done.

Maybe he was "considered" for a Medal of Honor, a Nobel Prize, a Knighthood. Maybe Beatification. Sainthood. So what if it isn't so? I'm never gonna come *close* to consideration.