Should we just let GM, Ford and Chrysler fail?

[Bustem' Down]

Why should we bail them out. Why shouldn't we let a free market force them to create a higher quality product to compete with the foreign market?

[Pete (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...Tacoma or Dakota or Ranger or S10? Tacoma. Hands down.

Dakota won in mid size pick ups over Tacoma.
Ratings | J.D. Power

Sequoia or Tahoe or Expedition? Sequoia, both hands down.

It did win

Rav4 or Jeep Liberty? Rav4, hands down.

Rav4 did win but Chryslers PT cruiser was near the top.

4Runner or Explorer/Blazer? 4Runner, both hands down.

Dodge Durango beat the 4Runner
Ratings | J.D. Power

Same thing with the Chevy Malibu, it beat Toyota Camry and Honda Accord

Ratings | J.D. Power

These are only the ones I have first hand knowledge and experience with. Fit, finish, nuisance problems, feel, handling. It's not a contest. It just isn't. I would happily buy American if every time I got in one it didn't feel so damn inferior to the Toyota's.

THIS is the major problem of the US manufacturers.

I still say it is perception in many cases. I would not trade my Silverado for a Tundra.

Originally Posted by Bustem' Down

Why should we bail them out. Why shouldn't we let a free market force them to create a higher quality product to compete with the foreign market?

because they are right now

idk about you guys but i love my new chevy

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Bustem' Down

Why should we bail them out. Why shouldn't we let a free market force them to create a higher quality product to compete with the foreign market?

...the problem is the intertwining of the private and government sectors. How private, really, is GM or Ford from government? As I say, this is a three legged stool; business/labor/government.

I still expect us to ride in, take over the legacy costs and the unions will give up some bennies and the companies will give up sweet sounding long term deals for the unions that we can go back and absorb later on.

[ylexot (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Beaver-Cleaver

because they are right now

What does that mean?

Originally Posted by Beaver-Cleaver

idk about you guys but i love my new chevy

I love my Pontiac, but it did strand me with just over 200 miles on the odo. It's been flawless since then though.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Pete

Dakota won in mid size pick ups over Tacoma.
Ratings | J.D. Power



It did win


Rav4 did win but Chryslers PT cruiser was near the top.




Dodge Durango beat the 4Runner
Ratings | J.D. Power

Same thing with the Chevy Malibu, it beat Toyota Camry and Honda Accord

Ratings | J.D. Power




I still say it is perception in many cases. I would not trade my Silverado for a Tundra.

I don't know anything about the Tundra's. All the rest is first hand experience, what I own/ed, what friends and family own/ed.

So, it's perception if one thinks Toyota is better, but not if one thinks US is as good?

[Bann (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Beaver-Cleaver

Agreed.

This one IS necessary though. If they go under, millions of jobs would be lost and this country would go into a depression.

I've thinking more on this. I've been reading & listening more. So, I've kind of made up my mind about it. I think the auto industry in this country has been doing it to themselves over the years. I think they should claim bankruptcy - not be bailed out. The unions are not helping - they are hampering the industry. (overall) And I think the paid retirements at 55 is WAY more than most workers in this country are afforded and the industry is suffering.

I don't want to hear about "but that's the contract I signed and what am I going to do now". When I heard about this particular situation - at first thought you think "oh, how awful". But then - what about the military retirees about 18 years ago or so? The Fed Gov't just took away their "free" medical for life & said - too bad, so sad - we can't afford it anymore. No more free. In the middle of their "retirement" - their benefits changed. Period.

Same thing (in general) if you ask me.

[MMDad (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Bann

I've thinking more on this. I've been reading & listening more. So, I've kind of made up my mind about it. I think the auto industry in this country has been doing it to themselves over the years. I think they should claim bankruptcy - not be bailed out. The unions are not helping - they are hampering the industry. (overall) And I think the paid retirements at 55 is WAY more than most workers in this country are afforded and the industry is suffering.

But haven't "we" helped them get into this mess? "We" keep electing pro-union liberals who make it nearly impossible for manufacturers to negotiate better deals. "We" have allowed the unions to become so powerul that they can get whatever they want, and anyone who speaks out against the unions is labeled as "anti-worker."

I believe that the relief the manufacturers need, and should get, is to get rid of the unions focused only on blackmailing employers. They are corrupt and have outived their usefulness. Keep some of the trade unions, where they are actually focused on standards of training, skill, and experience.

[Kyle (Premo)]

Yes, yes and yes.

[Bann (Premo)]

Originally Posted by MMDad

But haven't "we" helped them get into this mess? "We" keep electing pro-union liberals who make it nearly impossible for manufacturers to negotiate better deals. "We" have allowed the unions to become so powerul that they can get whatever they want, and anyone who speaks out against the unions is labeled as "anti-worker."

I believe that the relief the manufacturers need, and should get, is to get rid of the unions focused only on blackmailing employers. They are corrupt and have outived their usefulness. Keep some of the trade unions, where they are actually focused on standards of training, skill, and experience.

From what I hear the Governor of Michigan has helped her state get further & further in dire straits. And how do you get rid of the unions? We have to just whack them? How do you choose which ones? Maybe the auto companies can just go into bankruptcy just like Linens N Things & Circuit City, et. al. are doing and start over. What will the unions do then?

Honestly, I'm not sure how to solve the situation. But if we send them a bailout - then there will be another company standing in line behind them.