Should we just let GM, Ford and Chrysler fail?

I have to agree w/ Pete here. (as you can see in my other rant post :) ) except one part. The ONLY industry we lead the world in, which is by far the biggest chip EVER....food....

The US produces more food and exports it than ANY other country in the world. The amount of fertile land in this country dwarfs any other. Think if we decided to stop shipping food out of the country....wow.

But not to detract from the point of the thread, They should go under and the UAW should feel the pain and MAYBE they would decide that it's bad business (and yes the UAW *IS* a business) to over price themselves.

If you hang the tires on an automobile going down an assembly line you don't deserve 60/hour. I'm sorry. It's no wonder why foreign labor wins. Think if those same people were picking produce. a lemon would cost 30.00 a piece.

Greed and money for nothing. It's a sad american culture. Did you know two high ranking officals in the chinese military wrote a manifesto on how to tear apart America without firing a shot ? They asserted to collapse this nation financially. Selling american interests abroad and dividing up the country recognizing the american greed - labelled the american dream- as a way for it to devour it's infrastructure from the inside.

By rebuilding this industry without gov't bailouts (which will feed the dream to over spend and continue to over pay workers) The new businesses can correct the wrongs. If the Gov't bails out these companies, they might as well federalize them and make them gov't businesses. Then what ? Telcos ? Healthcare ?

ugh I'm beating up this soap box.

[BuddyLee]

Originally Posted by Dougstermd

and then you will be complaining why do we give soo much in forgien aide when we should be helping out our domestic brothers and sisters. Realize that loaning these companys money has no bearing on the fact that you are gona pay taxes. Its not uncommon for companies and banks to borrow money from the goverment.

JMHO

Not that much money.

Fact is these companies could have restructured multiple times but they didn't. I'm not about to pay for their mistakes, American icon or not.

[Dougstermd (Premo)]

Originally Posted by BuddyLee

Not that much money.

Fact is these companies could have restructured multiple times but they didn't. I'm not about to pay for their mistakes, American icon or not.

you do remember Diamler chrysler? Ford and Jag, volvo?

mack truck and volvo?

[BuddyLee]

Originally Posted by Dougstermd

you do remember Diamler chrysler? Ford and Jag, volvo?

mack truck and volvo?

What about em?

[BlueBird]

I hate that we are even considering bailing out the big three.

These are private companies and this is America Dammit! They need to produce a business plan that works and if they can't they should fail.

I feel bad for the employee's and the towns these employee's and businesses support but that's just the way it is. At what point should we not expect the government to bail out a poorly ran business?

Businesses go under every day in this country and new ones take their place. Should the Government not let any business fail? I agree with Buddy Lee, these companies should have been restructuring to meet the needs of the market and not the needs of whatever out of touch concept these CEO's have.

What kind of CEO pay's for a $20,000 private jet to transport their a$$ to DC to ask congress for a handout consisting of our hard earned tax dollars!

An out of touch crappy one which is why they need a bailout in the first place! Makes me sick! Let them fail and let new well run companies take their place. Start small, start over and meet the needs of the market by building good quality cars people are willing to buy over an import.

[BuddyLee]

Originally Posted by BlueBird

I agree with Buddy Lee, these companies should have been restructuring to meet the needs of the market and not the needs of whatever out of touch concept these CEO's have.

The business world is a lot like the natural one in that you either adapt to your environment over time or you perish without a care.

[BlueBird]

Originally Posted by BuddyLee

The business world is a lot like the natural one in that you either adapt to your environment over time or you perish without a care.

Excatly right.

They are failing to adapt and it's not my responsibilty (or yours) as tax payer's to bail them out with our tax money. Throwing more money at them won't gurantee us that they'll all the sudden come up with a better business plan. It's just appalling to me that in this great country with free enterpise, that these large corporations expect Government handouts for running their business into the ground.

I'm going to start a busniess tomorrow that's destined to fail. Will the Government bail me out too? It wouldn't be "fair" if they didn't....

[blazinlow89]

Originally Posted by BlueBird

Excatly right.

They are failing to adapt and it's not my responsibilty (or yours) as tax payer's to bail them out with our tax money. Throwing more money at them won't gurantee us that they'll all the sudden come up with a better business plan. It's just appalling to me that in this great country with free enterpise, that these large corporations expect Government handouts for running their business into the ground.

I'm going to start a busniess tomorrow that's destined to fail. Will the Government bail me out too? It wouldn't be "fair" if they didn't....

Well considering the government puts so many regulations on them. They have stuff in the works that will be great. It would be nice to see the ford that gets 65mpg, and the volt will be a great vehicle when its released. Id rather see 25b go to the auto industry instead of the 700b that went to wallstreet.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by blazinlow89

Well considering the government puts so many regulations on them. They have stuff in the works that will be great. It would be nice to see the ford that gets 65mpg, and the volt will be a great vehicle when its released. Id rather see 25b go to the auto industry instead of the 700b that went to wallstreet.

...OK, but there have long been 50 mpg cars in the US. People don't want to buy them in great numbers. People LIKE big, safe vehicles. Ford and GM make money on the larger vehicles. You can't have a stable economy with wildly fluctuating energy prices. It is a national interest to have stable gas prices.

Allowing oil to get so out of control hurt US auto makers by hurting sales of bigger vehicles. Congress could address that.

[blazinlow89]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...OK, but there have long been 50 mpg cars in the US. People don't want to buy them in great numbers. People LIKE big, safe vehicles. Ford and GM make money on the larger vehicles. You can't have a stable economy with wildly fluctuating energy prices. It is a national interest to have stable gas prices.

Allowing oil to get so out of control hurt US auto makers by hurting sales of bigger vehicles. Congress could address that.

Thats also a very good point. For some reason people think that American vehicles are inferior to Japanese or Korean counterparts. When in fact the American vehicle is just as good or better. A guy on Trailvoy.com made good point, they had a Honda commercial showing the big crossover they have and said it gets 24mpg, the most of any 7 passenger etc. This was about a month before the Chevy Traverse came out, which gets 18/25 i believe. Its also ponded into the Americans heads the the foreign cars ge.t better gas mileage. This might have been true in the 70's and 80's but not so much anymore. My 2.5 ton trailblazer gets 16-19 city and 24-26 on the highway (depending on driver). Which is far above the 15/20 the epa gave it, (no i dont hypermile) simple engine tune and an after market intake and exhaust was well worth the exra 5-6mpg when im cruising. That along with the high profits they could get off the SUV's and trucks that they came to rely on got cut short.

I think Oil should be set at $50 a barrel, and $1.75 a gallon its not hard on peoples pocket book and the damn saudis still get the money they need. Or we could drill in Anwr, start using oil shale and get to pumping on the coast we could be self sustaining, and have enough oil for at least 80-100 years while we use that time to make the changes we need to get away from oil. But all the hippies want it now, which is to damn expensive.