Should we just let GM, Ford and Chrysler fail?

[ylexot (Premo)]

Originally Posted by itsbob

WWII many car manufacturing, truck manufacturing plants were converted into wartime manufacturing plants.

Fairly easy to convert a car manufacturing plant into an artillery manufacturing plant, or small armored vehicle plant.. or even a helo or small aircraft plant.

Most are so big, they could pick up the wartime effort and still build cars and or trucks.

Run LMTV's off of one side of their warehouse while Corvettes are coming out the other side.

Yeah, but what indispensable skills do the workers have now?

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by Pete

So what do we do with the economic chaos post failure? 4.4 million people unemployed, even more homes in foreclosure, and if you look Michigan already is one of the highest welfare states and this would tip the entire state into failure. Can a whole state go bankrupt?

Oh well.

That's the same argument the libbies use when conservatives want to cut welfare spending and make people get J-O-B-S and support their own selves: But what will we do about the children who will suffer if we don't give their parents money??

The answer is, they will deal with it. It'll take a few years, possibly a generation, but they will eventually figure it out and become self-supporting. If we keep doing what we're doing, they'll NEVER get out from under the government tit because they don't have to.

Twenty years from now, we can either have businesses that operate to make a profit, or we can have businesses that our tax dollars have to constantly support. I vote for Option #1.

If GM, etc, don't have the government to mooch money from, they will have to cut wasteful spending - much of which is in the form of executive salaries, bonuses and perks. Why should I pay the salaries of their $30/hr employees when the GM CEO makes $8.5 mil a year?

G Richard Wagoner Jr, CEO of General Motors (GM), Earns $8.5 mil

[Pete (Premo)]

Originally Posted by vraiblonde

Oh well.

That's the same argument the libbies use when conservatives want to cut welfare spending and make people get J-O-B-S and support their own selves: But what will we do about the children who will suffer if we don't give their parents money??

The answer is, they will deal with it. It'll take a few years, possibly a generation, but they will eventually figure it out and become self-supporting. If we keep doing what we're doing, they'll NEVER get out from under the government tit because they don't have to.

Twenty years from now, we can either have businesses that operate to make a profit, or we can have businesses that our tax dollars have to constantly support. I vote for Option #1.

If GM, etc, don't have the government to mooch money from, they will have to cut wasteful spending - much of which is in the form of executive salaries, bonuses and perks. Why should I pay the salaries of their $30/hr employees when the GM CEO makes $8.5 mil a year?

G Richard Wagoner Jr, CEO of General Motors (GM), Earns $8.5 mil

As of 2006 there were about 2 million people on welfare nation wide. If these companies fail and just half go on welfare that would more than double the welfare rolls in addition to paying unemployment to 4 million people in addition to the ones already drawing it.

Also we have 6.2% unemployment, normally it hovers around 5, if those jobs go away where are these people supposed to work?

I agree with you as far as waste BUT since the early 1990's the industry buzzword has been "efficiency" and the elimination of waste. Business has gotten pretty good at it. Is there going to be enough "waste" to trim to counter the effect of the credit crisis, staggering healthcare, pension and labor costs?

As far as the CEO's salary GM made 9.5 million cars in 2007. 90 cents per car went to the CEO's salary so that is not what one would consider big time "waste" when it comes in perspective of a $25,000 car.

[itsbob (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Pete

I don't know if that is still a capability. First off back in the 40's everything was hand built. Changing the line wasn't all that difficult. Now with so much automated could the robots be reprogrammed? Do they have the clearance for larger vehicles?

Next, is it realistic to think that we will get into a conflict that would require us to build 10,000 bombers or 25,000 tanks?

Lastly the equipment we build today is infinitely more complicated and complex. It is not the same as welding together tank hulls and bolting on tracks.

The only thing I can say, is if we need 25000 tanks I don't think we'll be producing 25,000 M1's You're right, they are far too complex, and too complicated and too expensive to mass produce in WWII numbers.

You look at WWII and the production, I don't think we have much of anything other than MAYBE the HMMWV that can be mass produced in a short period of time.

We'll have the good stuff, the M1s the F35's B2's in reserve for the important battles, but for extended use we'll have something like modern day Sherman Tanks (or something like an M1light) and F86s being mass produced, and low production of the good stuff to man the important Bn and Divs.

We hope there will never be a reason to do that ever again, but who knows.. we've already had 2 World Wars.. from a SMALL country like Germany, just imagine if a true power tried do to the same.

[sunflower]

Stupid Question but
Why do they keep making cars/trucks if noone is buying them? Why can't they wait until they sell some then make more? If something isnt selling I would cut back and not make more until I see my sales go up...

[itsbob (Premo)]

Originally Posted by ylexot

Yeah, but what indispensable skills do the workers have now?

Well, roadwheels on tanks have lugnuts just like cars..

The computer programmer in charge of the robots would be indispensable.

But I get your drift I think.. The factory and the infrastructure are more indispensable than the people. You really don't have "skilled craftsmen" working in the car assembly plant anymore.

[itsbob (Premo)]

Originally Posted by sunflower

Stupid Question but
Why do they keep making cars/trucks if noone is buying them? Why can't they wait until they sell some then make more? If something isnt selling I would cut back and not make more until I see my sales go up...

It's more costly to shut down a factory, or slow down a factory than it is to keep building cars and put them in storage.

They know they are going to take a loss on selling the cars, but it's less money than it would be to shut a factory down and try to reopen it when the market recovers.

[wollybugger]

Originally Posted by Pete

Lets all remember when you say "GM" we are not talking about a bowtie logo or a half dozen cigar smoking big wigs in a board room, they already have their money, we are talking about 266,000 people with mortgages, car payments, kids with braces and kids in college.

And a very strong, suffocating union.

The big 3, are not like like an ExxonMobile, that have very large profits. The big 3 have failed to produce consistant profit margins.

So where does the money from autosales go?

And why is Polosi and Reid so eager for the bailout?

The answer to those questions lay in the unions. Are families hurt. SURE.

But by the governement supplying money to bail those in a strong union workforce ... what's that sound like ... Marxism?

[Jigglepuff (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Pete

Do you think that Japan and Europe will buy up parts of the Big 3 and absorb the workers and the UAW contracts?

No because the Japanese want people that actually work for a living.

[Pete (Premo)]

Originally Posted by sunflower

Stupid Question but
Why do they keep making cars/trucks if noone is buying them? Why can't they wait until they sell some then make more? If something isnt selling I would cut back and not make more until I see my sales go up...

Decent question.

Business today is 1,000 times more complex than "back in the day". The auto industry is extremely competitive and complex.. you have GM making 9.5 million cars and trucks, they have formula's that determine how many vehicles are produced based on average time they sit on the lot almost down to the hour, what color, what options and so on. Just in time delivery of parts bought in bulk and so on. It is like a business ballet where items show up just in time to be installed and shipped. Can you imagine how many millions of dollars are lost if 1 factory shuts down the line because a rail car of brake pads is 5 hours late? all those people sitting around, production stopped is like money flying out the window. EVERYTHING has a price tag built into it. How many missed days because of illness, how long the average bathroom break is, how many squares you use to wipe with , ho wmany millions of gallons of paint, steering wheels, lug nuts, and jobs bank. EVERYTHING is calculated down to the nth degree.

Sometimes things happen too quickly for the megalithic manufacturing giants to respond. GM makes 3,000 pickup trucks a day....yes a DAY. This is how many the formula and stats show they need to maintain a 28 day inventory on every dealers lot nationwide and abroad. If something happens like gas prices jump because of a hurricane and stay up and people slow down or put off buying that pickup the inventory grows until the factory can slow down. Inventory is BAD! Cars and trucks sitting on lots cost GM money. Sometimes inventories grow and you have 39 days worth of cars on the lots. All this happens everyday all the time. It is quite complex in big business.

it is not just the car industry, look at the airlines. 9/11 grounded airplanes for what 3 days? Just not being able to fly for 3 days and lower flight rates for a week or two put every major airline on the brink of bankruptcy. Just 3 days of not making schedules nearly wiped out an entire industry because it snowballs.