Left and right in America...

[Vince]

Originally Posted by Kerad

Apparently you were very far away during the first 6 years of the Bush administration.

These last years I wasn't too far away.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Kerad

The shift to the left as Bush and the Republicans were steering the ship? That blame's stuck on those responsible for it.

Yeah. Do you even read the first post? That's the whole point. The right got hosed starting after 9/11. The left is getting it already.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Vince

And all this time I thought Congress had something to do with it, and the majority was Democrat. Dayum, where have I been.

...the congress had a lot to do with it. For six years they played lap dog to the White House and since then, they've kept it up plus letting the Dems off with barely a whimper of opposition.

[Kerad]

Yes Larry, I read the post.

You don't seem to differentiate between degrees of "Leftness" and "Rightness".

The lunatic fringe from both sides will always be upset when their guy drifts towards the middle. I personally couldn't care less what those people think, or if they're disappointed. If they think they can have a President who can be effective while sticking to one side's extreme fringe, they're not familiar with reality.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Kerad

Yes Larry, I read the post.

You don't seem to differentiate between degrees of "Leftness" and "Rightness".

The lunatic fringe from both sides will always be upset when their guy drifts towards the middle. I personally couldn't care less what those people think, or if they're disappointed. If they think they can have a President who can be effective while sticking to one side's extreme fringe, they're not familiar with reality.

...this is you at your annoying best. I don't even blame something on your side yet you make that up out of whole cloth that I was blaming W's failings on the left and you do it in some sort of reflexive defensive posture.

I started this post clearly enunciating the things the right got hosed on. They are, by definition, left leaning policies; massive expansion of medicare, the profoundly socialist stimulus packages and bailouts. The huge expansion of the breadth and scope and power and cost of government, these are all examples of the rights failings in holding our guy accountable and it hurt us and, far worse, it hurts the nation. He could not have gotten in office without us and we got used.

Now, Obama; without the left he's nowhere. He is already going against the entire theme of his campaign of hope and change and a new politics and changing Washington and so forth with the hirings of profoundly old school and insider types, thus the question; We, the right, failed to hold our people accountable because we wanted to believe in them and trust them and we got used and it is already happening to the left; so, who will have gotten it worse, the right or, in a few years time, the left? So far, the left is just sitting there, inert.

[Kerad]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...

Now, Obama; without the left he's nowhere. He is already going against the entire theme of his campaign of hope and change and a new politics and changing Washington and so forth with the hirings of profoundly old school and insider types, thus the question; We, the right, failed to hold our people accountable because we wanted to believe in them and trust them and we got used and it is already happening to the left; so, who will have gotten it worse, the right or, in a few years time, the left? So far, the left is just sitting there, inert.

And this is what you do best. You state your opinion ("He is already going against the entire theme of his campaign of hope and change...") as if it were a proven fact.

I think Obama was addressing you, specifically in his press conference.

"Understand where the vision for change comes from, first and foremost," he said. "It comes from me. That's my job, to provide a vision in terms of where we are going and to make sure then that my team is implementing [that vision]."

...

"The last Democratic administration we had was the Clinton administration," said Obama. "So it would be surprising if I selected a Treasury Secretary who had had no connection with the last Democratic administration, because that would mean that the person had no experience in Washington whatsoever. And I suspect that you would be troubled and the American people would be troubled if I selected a Treasury Secretary or a chairman of the National Economic Council, at one of the most critical economic times in our history, who had no experience in government whatsoever. What we are going to do is combine experience with fresh thinking."

I know you are chomping at the bit to point out Obama's flawed policies, but you're going to have to wait a bit until you can declare any of his future policies to be a failure. Or prove that he somehow misled the American people during his campaign.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Kerad

And this is what you do best. You state your opinion ("He is already going against the entire theme of his campaign of hope and change...") as if it were a proven fact. When someone says they WILL use the public finance system and then does NOT, that is NOT my opinion; he broke his word. When someone says they want to change the politics as usual culture and then hires on KEY people are absolutely politics as usual, it is NOT my opinion, it is what they are doing. It is FACT.

I think Obama was addressing you, specifically in his press conference.


...



I know you are chomping at the bit to point out Obama's flawed policies, but you're going to have to wait a bit until you can declare any of his future policies to be a failure. Or prove that he somehow misled the American people during his campaign.

I have not declared one single Obama policy a failure as I have no knowledge of any actual policy other than breaking campaign pledges. So, if you see that as a policy, then, OK, it's failed.

I wish him all the best. So far, I see a leader is is ALEADY betraying those that got him there and if they don't hold him accountable then I expect they'll be in the same boat the right is in before long and THAT is the question; are they gonna do what we did and just watch it happen?

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

"The last Democratic administration we had was the Clinton administration," said Obama. "So it would be surprising if I selected a Treasury Secretary who had had no connection with the last Democratic administration, because that would mean that the person had no experience in Washington whatsoever. And I suspect that you would be troubled and the American people would be troubled if I selected a Treasury Secretary or a chairman of the National Economic Council, at one of the most critical economic times in our history, who had no experience in government whatsoever. What we are going to do is combine experience with fresh thinking."

...you don't see the irony in this? A man chosen specifically because he has NO executive experience whatsoever and very, very limited inside the beltway experience winning on a platform of change yet right away installing people that ARE the system? You don't get that?

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Kerad

Or prove that he somehow misled the American people during his campaign.

...no, no, no. Breaking your word is not misleading. It's called 'lying'. He lied about the public financing thing and he is lying about changing the 'politics as usual' thing. You wanna change the system, you bring in new people with new ideas who will...change it. You hire the people who know how it runs, you're talking about running it as it is, not changing it.

Sadly, Bush didn't even mislead us; he got us to buy into the 'compassionate conservative' thing.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Kerad

I know you are chomping at the bit to point out Obama's flawed policies, but you're going to have to wait a bit until you can declare any of his future policies to be a failure. Or prove that he somehow misled the American people during his campaign.

...here's the thing; Hopefully, Obama has been lying about the policies he intends to implement as well. Be that as it may, your side can either hold him accountable and keep an eye on things. Or not. I can tell you how that works out if you just tell him go. Of course, you can see that for yourself right now if you'd quit being so defensive about it.