National debt

[Lugnut]

An interesting factoid... The National debt figures don't include the 5 trillion in liabilities found on the Fannie and Freddi balance sheets even though BOTH are now under government conservatorship.

10 trillion?

15 trillion?

Who wants to bet on 20 Trillion PLUS in the next 4 years?

[2ndAmendment]

The current figures also don't include spending currently wanted by the Democrats and Obama. $839 billion (that is $839,000,000,000 - that is a lot of zeros) which has to be borrowed.

Then the new Treasury Secretary want another 2 trillion in spending ($2,000,000,000,000).

These people are going to bankrupt the United States and everyone will be out of work. That will happen as soon as the Feds put bonds up for sale and no one buys them. Could happen very quickly.

[ImnoMensa]

The crisis of doing nothing would have been better than the crisis of the bailout.

Bankrupt banks are better than a bankrupt government.

[Pandora]

I have TONS of U.S. bonds and have been wondering if it might be best to cash them all in.

You just really don't know what to do. My retirement accounts have dwindled, savings pays nothing, and well, seems like the financially irresponsible are being rewarded.

Originally Posted by 2ndAmendment

Then the new Treasury Secretary want another 2 trillion in spending ($2,000,000,000,000).

I hate him and I hope he chokes on a #### and suffers a long, horrific death.

[Tilted]

Originally Posted by Pandora

I have TONS of U.S. bonds and have been wondering if it might be best to cash them all in.

If you're worried about them defaulting, then I wouldn't be too concerned. Unless you were going to use the money to buy tangible assets with inherent value, it really wouldn't matter anyway. If U.S. securities ever default, societal systems will have deteriorated to the point that the notion of money - arbitrary trading currencies with no inherent value - will have no meaning.

Before the U.S. reaches the point where it can no longer issue debt, and can't find a line of people waiting to buy it, so that it can make good on its current debt - the rest of the world will have reached that point and their systems will have shut down. When scared or excess capital is looking for a place to rest, and when people are looking to buy debt - we are still the place they look to and what they trust the most. Our securities are trading at a price premium (and yield discount) to those of the rest of the world.

The British 2 year security is currently trading at almost a half percent higher yield than ours (1.34% vs 0.89%) and their 10 year is close to a full percent higher (3.62% vs. 2.76%). That illustrates how much people would rather give their money to us.

I'm not suggesting that we couldn't reach the point where our borrowing ability dries up - just that it already won't matter if it does.

Gosh, I hope I didn't misunderstand your concern - if I did then I apologize.

[Pandora]

Nope Tilted, you pretty much covered my concerns.

[Pandora]

Hey Tilted, you still feeling the same way about those bonds.

[ImnoMensa]

.89% I bet they arent selling too fast now.

Might as well put your cash in a safe deposit box.

[Alexa]

Originally Posted by Tilted

If you're worried about them defaulting, then I wouldn't be too concerned. Unless you were going to use the money to buy tangible assets with inherent value, it really wouldn't matter anyway. If U.S. securities ever default, societal systems will have deteriorated to the point that the notion of money - arbitrary trading currencies with no inherent value - will have no meaning.

Before the U.S. reaches the point where it can no longer issue debt, and can't find a line of people waiting to buy it, so that it can make good on its current debt - the rest of the world will have reached that point and their systems will have shut down. When scared or excess capital is looking for a place to rest, and when people are looking to buy debt - we are still the place they look to and what they trust the most. Our securities are trading at a price premium (and yield discount) to those of the rest of the world.

The British 2 year security is currently trading at almost a half percent higher yield than ours (1.34% vs 0.89%) and their 10 year is close to a full percent higher (3.62% vs. 2.76%). That illustrates how much people would rather give their money to us.

I'm not suggesting that we couldn't reach the point where our borrowing ability dries up - just that it already won't matter if it does.

Gosh, I hope I didn't misunderstand your concern - if I did then I apologize.

I was listening to a news station the other day. I think it was NPR. I like listening to the news on my way home and "roll the dial" so to speak (Givin' the old age away) until I get one that sounds like it is going over the days news.

Anyway, I caught the middle of the report, but it was stating that the Chinese has already begun asking questions about the debt. From what I garnered from the parts that I heard, they are beginning to worry themselves about our making good.

Any thoughts on that?