We're not socialists...

[ylexot (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Rosehaven

Look, one out of every ten jobs in this country is touched by the auto industry (even Rush says that is so).

I love this statistic. It's almost comical. What does "touched by" mean? It's like playing seven degrees of Kevin Bacon. If GM goes down, they won't get mail any more, so the mail carrier is "touched by" the auto industry. The truck driver that brings the mail is also "touched by" the auto industry. The people who send the mail are also "touched by" the auto industry. However, absolutely nothing will happen to them if GM fails.

I'm within four degrees of Kevin Bacon, but I will not be affected if he were to die.

[Mike (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Rosehaven

My deepest apologies for not sitting by the screen and waiting with baited breath to hear the Truth. Haven't heard it yet.

And I'm still waiting to hear your reson of having faith in a failed economic / political system. I prefer NOT to go down a proven path to disaster.

Originally Posted by Rosehaven

Look, one out of every ten jobs in this country is touched by the auto industry (even Rush says that is so). So you let GM fail and the others and that is going to take more than just the auto folks down the drain. Now I understand the logic being used---F--'em, they're stupid, they made mistakes, screw them. In theory, they will rebuild. But what happens until that takes place? All of these folks go down the tubes. ..

I have no real love for Bush - he opened the door to the failed policy you want so badly. He was doing it before Hussein - liberals should love him.

Originally Posted by Rosehaven

Look, we have all allowed companies to get so big that a stupid mistake made in Detroit or Upper Marlboro has the potential of taking down companies all over the world. I wish that wasn't the case but if we follow this "F'em approach, a lot of folks in a lot of places get nailed. This isn't the '50's when everything that happened in one place usually stayed in that place. So you just can't use that Free Enterprise/The Market Knows approach because we're now dealing with a monster never before seen...

I tend to agree most of that - but rerunning a bad play expecting a different result is a true definition of insanity. In all the world's cases of Socialism - no other country has put as much $$$ into it as Hussein has. All the while starting more social programs, increasing our national debt, and still planning to spend evenmore. As incredibly stupid as it sounds, they cound have given every citixen in the country a large chunk of change to spend, save, and invest. I am opposed to that, but it would have been timely targeted and temporary. The size of gov't is growing and we have almost run out of tricks because the people have not been enpowered and encouraged to do anything for themselves. The Nanny-state is here to stay.

Originally Posted by Rosehaven

Nobody knows how we're gonna get out of this. But the fact is, we're all inter connected--yeah, even liberals are hurt.

I have done many things in my life to prepare for hard times. I have worked since I was 14 in numerous jobs, got an education,saved, invested, planned for a rainy day, cut back - you know the kind of things responsible people teach their children. If I lost my job tomorrow, I'm sure I'd go into panic mode. I guess I am bitter that such a large number people were irresponsible and did little to plan for their familes possible hard times. But a socialist gov't is the problem NOT the solution. You have said absolutely nothing to disprove that except dance to the cricket music.

If Obama's Landmark Recovery Act (787 Billion dollars) was a good plan - those "shovel ready jobs" would be putting the folks back to work. The Recovery Bill - another joke on the American public, more proof of the failures of (I'm tired of typing it) - the *S* word.

Peace

[hvp05 (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Rosehaven

we're now dealing with a monster never before seen.

That much is for sure.

Nobody knows how we're gonna get out of this.

I have seen quite a few Liberals say this; they seem lost and forlorn. The answer? Look to big momma gubment to solve all the problems.

Meanwhile, I have seen the Conservatives offering insight and real solutions; they're not all good solutions, and the folks can get heated going back and forth on the details, but at least the ideas are being tossed around.

Originally Posted by ylexot

I'm within four degrees of Kevin Bacon, but I will not be affected if he were to die.

Good point.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

I just wonder if all this would be happening if McCain had been elected.

Of course not.

If John McCain was president, we'd have free speech, full 2nd amendment rights, the DOW would be well over 10,000 and rising, there'd be no bail outs because there'd be no need for them, unemployment would be about 5% because there'd be no illegals taking American jobs, health care costs would be under control, the air and water would be cleaner, gas would be $.99 and 100% American made, our hair would be shinier and our teeth whiter all because he has such a profoundly different record from that of Obama.

The down side would be that jazz would be banned.

Tough choices have to be made.

[Mike (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Pete

You have a point BUT the fact is if GM fails, since it has a large market share in the world auto industry other companies will step up to fill the giant vacuum in supply GM collapse would create. Other car companies will have to expand to fill the production needed to replace GM. this means some will expand their own facilities, some will scavenge GM facilities. Either way there will be a home for much of the former GM work force with new companies. Some will be able to stay put while Toyota changes the sign on a plant in Lansing Michigan from Pontiac to Toyota, some might have to move to Lexington KY if they want the job.

If the UAW and the government do not poke big labor in the eye and they try to crate the same mess in the new companies that they did at GM that contributed to its downfall Michigan will become more of a wasteland than it already is. Toyota or Nissan are not going to buy an old GM plant and rehire GM workers for $75 an hour.

Karl Marx made Rosehaven's point better:
From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.

Modern day USSA translation - the able bodied responsible citizens provide for the masses of irresponsible slackers.

[ImnoMensa]

Originally Posted by cwo_ghwebb

First of all, I disagree the world is with the president on this. Germany, for one, has disagreed with the president's fiscal policies.

Secondly, why should the citizens (and their children and grandchildren not yet born) be made responsible for paying for the president's version of a new world order?

Stop worrying about your Grandchildren having to pay for the Obama Presidency. The way things are going there wont be a United States in 20 years, If Russia doesnt kick our ass or Iran doesnt nuke us we will be a part of the new world order.