Miranda; Downfall of the US?

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Everyone knows WHAT Miranda is; when you get arrested, the mandatory reminder of your right to remain silent, etc.

Do you know WHY Miranda is? To me, Miranda is the greatest evil we've done to ourselves since slavery. Slavery imposed the will of the strong over the weak; the original sin of the land of the free and the home of the brave. However, from day one, people worked against slavery and we've over come it, by and large.

Miranda is the imposition of the will and strength of words over reality. On it's surface, that sounds good, as does Miranda. What could be wrong with words being stronger than men? After all, we're supposed to be a nation of laws, not a nation of men, right? I mean, that is how slavery was defeated, right?

Well, that depends on the words, doesn't it? After all, words can say that slavery is legal and right. Slavery was the proposition of an idea that made sense only in that it made it's proposition so; slaves deserve to be slaves or they'd be strong and smart enough to not be slaves. They are slaves so, they must be slaves.

However, that argument always failed from the standpoint of the Constitution and Declaration of Independence; we are all created equal. Thus it is a moral wrong, by our principles and ideas, to impose your will on another.

So, Miranda. Are they good words? No. The words aren't bad but the result of those words are; the ignoring of reality. It is one thing to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. It is another to be presumed innocent because a few words weren't uttered before the dead body was found in your trunk.

Just as Judge Tanney (of Maryland btw, which I've always found noteworthy given Maryland's tendency toward governmental silliness) defied reality by claiming Dredd Scott was not a man, thus not a citizen covered by our documents in order to support the proposition that slavery is fair and just and only applies to non citizens. Miranda defies reality by enslaving us all to a technicality, the idea that one MUST be informed of their rights or they MUST be innocent.

Miranda is the core of our entitlement society that, somehow, no one is actually guilty, no one is REALLY responsible for their actions, enslaving us to a false premise. That is the rot, the cancer that has long been eating the soul of American society just as the ideas surrounding slavery did for so many years.

At the end of the day, the hypocrisy of slavery simply couldn't stand up to who we are, what we claim to be. It was a wrong to Americans and that could not survive in a just society.

Miranda is is worse because we've supposed that if it applies to us all, it is, somehow fair though it still be wrong, as though slavery would be OK if we were all slaves or subjects and would and could never be any more than subjects. Sound familiar?

That Miranda was guilty and got away with his crimes because of the proposition that bears his name is the ultimately irony. Dredd Scott was, in fact, a man. Miranda was in fact, a violent criminal.

We moved past Scott and became a better nation after a mighty and terrible struggle over many, many years.

Will we move past Miranda? Or will that struggle for truth prove too difficult?

[Lenny]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

Everyone knows WHAT Miranda is; when you get arrested, the mandatory reminder of your right to remain silent, etc. ....Will we move past Miranda? Or will that struggle for truth prove too difficult?

Did we miss something this morning?

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Lenny

Did we miss something this morning?

Nope. My annoyance with Miranda has been fumulating and percolating for years. I was inspired this AM.

[Lenny]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

Nope. My annoyance with Miranda has been fumulating and percolating for years. I was inspired this AM.

Sometimes a Bloody Mary on Sunday AM takes care of that. Oh, you said inspired, I read impaired. Sorry.

[vraiblonde]

Miranda:

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney present during questioning. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you. Do you understand these rights?

Take issue.....

[SamSpade]

I guess I don't see it as you do. I can't see it anywhere near as awful as slavery.

I've only ever had two grievances with Miranda, and they're minor enough that they'll never keep me awake at night, or gritting my teeth over it.

The first is, it does kind of tick me off that someone might get off on a technicality should someone be arrested and not properly "Mirandized". That's perfectly idiotic. Of paramount importance in enforcing the law is to ensure the public that the guilty will be prosecuted and pay for their crimes.

It is NOT about following procedure. It is not a game of Simon Says or Mother May I. It's stupid for a person to go free because procedure was violated, as if following it was more important than putting guilty people behind bars. It seems to me we did a decent job of it before Miranda. It seems to me it's something that can be overlooked in a courtroom given the circumstances.

The second is similar - it's the law enforcement equivalent of a disclaimer announcement. You know those radio commercials where some lawyer sounding guy rapidly burns through all the legal disclaimers so he can't be sued, because they "explained" everything. I mean, you've heard them - even if they spoke them slowly, they might as well be in Chinese, because no one understands them or listens to them - they exist SOLELY because someone, somewhere could take them to court over it.

Miranda is also the law enforcement equivalent of a stupid warning label. You know, the ones on things like Preparation H, telling you not to take it orally. How stupid do you have to be to need to be warned of that? I mean, does everything ELSE in the world come with a label warning you not to stick it up your butt?

Lastly, along the same lines, it's like that disclaimer that prefaced Beavis and Butthead before it came on. You know the one. Some toddler left alone in trailer got hold of a cigarette lighter and started a fire, and it was blamed on Beavis's frequent rantings of "fire, fire, fire" even though the trailer owner didn't have cable. Somehow, the blame got placed on the TV SHOW because a parent left his kid alone in a house with a cigarette lighter nearby.

So what did MTV do? They put this idiotic warning to viewers telling them that B and B were cartoons and you shouldn't do what they do. See, that makes it all better.

Now, this is not an evil on level with slavery, regarded just a trifle below murder and rape as the worst thing you can do to someone. But it sure is colossally annoying.

[dustin]

Like samspade, I currently see the Miranda rights as a disclaimer.

There is so much variation potential during an arrest for the Miranda rights to be read incorrectly that I don't see the point on trying to improve the process anymore.

As far as moving past it. Too late for that. Disclaimers are part of our society now.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by SamSpade

Of paramount importance in enforcing the law is to ensure the public that the guilty will be prosecuted and pay for their crimes...

Now, this is not an evil on level with slavery, regarded just a trifle below murder and rape as the worst thing you can do to someone. But it sure is colossally annoying.

Paramount importance. That, we agree on. Miranda mocks that idea.

[Merlin99 (Premo)]

Larry,
Have you ever heard of anyone being set free because they were not read their rights? I know it happens on TV and the movies all of the time, but in real life I've never seen a case where it has.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Merlin99

Larry,
Have you ever heard of anyone being set free because they were not read their rights? I know it happens on TV and the movies all of the time, but in real life I've never seen a case where it has.

You must be kidding? There is a huge recent case in Texas where some illegal got set free because he wasn't told he had a right to contact his freaking embassy by the local cops in a timely fashion and the Bush Justice Department took the illegals side and infuriating the locals.

I mean, I'm not prepared to rattle of volumes of chapter and verse but don't we all know that, given our crime rates and our conviction rates and the laws that are on the books that don't seem to be much enforced, that there is a GREAT deal of evidence nullification on technical grounds in this country?