Obama just landed in Baghdad...

[Highlander]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...there is no evidence, at this time, to support the rumors going around that he is now going to apologize to Saddam Hussein's grave.

Rumor has it he is going to sit down to dinner with some AlQuida folks, have a few drinks, smoke some weed and ask them nicely to stop blowing us up. He is going to give them a trillion dollars (of our money) too to sweeten the deal.
He will close the meeting by setting the American flag on fire.

[Rael (Premo)]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

I work with the military and one thing I can say for certain; a lot of military folks voted for Obama.

Yeah, you're probably right. But like many, I'm just waiting and watching as far as the military is concerned. The fact that he visited them is encouraging in that it may not have necessarily been perceived as just a campaign-type tactic. I"m really very glad he went there. And I didn't vote for him, just trying to support him with the issues he's facing right now there.

[PsyOps]

Originally Posted by Rael

Yeah, you're probably right. But like many, I'm just waiting and watching as far as the military is concerned. The fact that he visited them is encouraging in that it may not have necessarily been perceived as just a campaign-type tactic. I"m really very glad he went there. And I didn't vote for him, just trying to support him with the issues he's facing right now there.

As badly as I want us out of Iraq I just don't think they are ready. Obama promising to get us out might just land us right back in there again when all hell breaks loose. Most our younger military folks voted based on the belief that Obama will get them out. That's fine, as long as they aren't right back in there again with an even bigger mess and more dead soldiers.

[Rael (Premo)]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

As badly as I want us out of Iraq I just don't think they are ready. Obama promising to get us out might just land us right back in there again when all hell breaks loose. Most our younger military folks voted based on the belief that Obama will get them out. That's fine, as long as they aren't right back in there again with an even bigger mess and more dead soldiers.

I'm stretching it here with my political opinions (I don't post them often), but... I feel that nothing about our presence or effort there is going to change what will happen in Iraq after we leave. I'm guessing the hope of a partnership with Iraq after the troops leave might have a good short-term (who knows? Maybe a long-term) purpose, but really. When will they be ready? Nobody ever knows, I just keep hearing about more training... This isn't cut-and-run anymore after all of this time.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Rael

I'm stretching it here with my political opinions (I don't post them often), but... I feel that nothing about our presence or effort there is going to change what will happen in Iraq after we leave. I'm guessing the hope of a partnership with Iraq after the troops leave might have a good short-term (who knows? Maybe a long-term) purpose, but really. When will they be ready? Nobody ever knows, I just keep hearing about more training... This isn't cut-and-run anymore after all of this time.

Obama said something I agree with while he was there; time for the Iraqi's to take over responsibility.

[Bann (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

...there is no evidence, at this time, to support the rumors going around that he is now going to apologize to Saddam Hussein's grave.

Wouldn't have surprised me!

[PsyOps]

Originally Posted by Rael

I'm stretching it here with my political opinions (I don't post them often), but... I feel that nothing about our presence or effort there is going to change what will happen in Iraq after we leave. I'm guessing the hope of a partnership with Iraq after the troops leave might have a good short-term (who knows? Maybe a long-term) purpose, but really. When will they be ready? Nobody ever knows, I just keep hearing about more training... This isn't cut-and-run anymore after all of this time.

When was Germany ready after WWII? Took us 50 years to truly secure that country. And we still have a pretty large presence there. The answer is, when it happens. Maybe McCain was right, it could take 100 years. Do we really put a time limit on these things. Seems we do nowadays.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

When was Germany ready after WWII? Took us 50 years to truly secure that country. And we still have a pretty large presence there. The answer is, when it happens. Maybe McCain was right, it could take 100 years. Do we really put a time limit on these things. Seems we do nowadays.

We can use that analogy if we use it fairly; In Germany, we got the fighting over with first. Had we tried to do everything at the same time, rebuild and restructure while the war was still on, we'd have had the same messy, ineffective results.

So, given that we have chosen to not end the fighting, rebuilding could take forever.

[PsyOps]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

We can use that analogy if we use it fairly; In Germany, we got the fighting over with first. Had we tried to do everything at the same time, rebuild and restructure while the war was still on, we'd have had the same messy, ineffective results.

So, given that we have chosen to not end the fighting, rebuilding could take forever.

Larry we've over and over. I think Europe is a good example of how the US stands by their responsibility to ensure a country they have invaded and destroyed is secure before leaving. I still can't understand, for the life of me, why Iraq is different than any other conflict we have been in except that we now live in the Vietnam-surrender-when-it-gets-too-tough mentality. Right or wrong about going in to Iraq, we still have a responsibility to them.

And you know darn well that if we leave now before that country is ready, it will fall to terrorists and insurgents and maybe even Iran and we will be right back in there again cleaning up an even bigger mess and risking American lives with much larger numbers.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

Larry we've over and over. I think Europe is a good example of how the US stands by their responsibility to ensure a country they have invaded and destroyed is secure before leaving. I still can't understand, for the life of me, why Iraq is different than any other conflict we have been in except that we now live in the Vietnam-surrender-when-it-gets-too-tough mentality. Right or wrong about going in to Iraq, we still have a responsibility to them.

And you know darn well that if we leave now before that country is ready, it will fall to terrorists and insurgents and maybe even Iran and we will be right back in there again cleaning up an even bigger mess and risking American lives with much larger numbers.

You call it beating a dead horse. I say you're beating the wrong horse.

Why isn't it obvious that Germany worked out BECAUSE we got the fighting over and done with before we rebuilt and that Iraq will NOT work because the fighting is still going on, thus whatever is being built is being built on an unstable foundation?