Is Libertarianism a lie?

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

Well, there you have it. A conservative didn't win, ergo, we don't want conservatives. We want John McCain and Barack Obama.

No chance the other candidates weren't good enough? Oh, right, if there wasn't a good enough one, that means we don't want one anyway!

No chance the divisions in the GOP made it impossible for a conservative to get very far this cycle? Of course not! Why, if we wanted conservatives, we'd have one!

You know Reagan lost in 1976, right? In your thinking, Reagan should have not won in 1980. People called him a kook, too. Until he won.

You keep spinning it. You keep believing ol' Dubbya wasn't all that bad and in three short years, we'll have us another one just like him. You keep believing that because McCain was the nominee therefore, even in Maryland, one MUST vote party or they are voting for the D.

Yippee.

That was a fun rant, now refute the logic. Because the fact is that McCain won the REPUBLICAN primary, and beat out several conservatives to do it. The minor leaguers like Duncan Hunter, the up and comers like Ron Paul, and the major leaguers like Mitt Romney (who may not be the ideal conservative, but he's better than John McCain).

Explain to me why, if The People (Republicans in particular) want a conservative, they didn't not vote for one in the primary?

And I would like you to address this without bringing Bush into it, because he wasn't running in 2008.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Jigglepuff

Voting third party across the board (local,state,federal) wil probably send the strongest message to Washington.

An era of "3rd Party" would force the two parties to get back to their core ethics.

If a Libertarian becomes elected...do you guys honestly think that legalizing drugs will be their highest priority for legislation? I think they would put that kind of stuff wayyyy on the back burner.

The Libertatian party does not have enough support or organizational power, at the moment, to get very far. If they do, the GOP will respond strongly enough to put them back on the margins.

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by Jigglepuff

Voting third party across the board (local,state,federal) wil probably send the strongest message to Washington.

Unless you can get a large number of people to do it, it will just be pissing in the wind. And since we are a two-party system and that's not likely to change anytime soon, it's doubtful that enough people will vote third-party to make any kind of impact.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by vraiblonde

That was a fun rant, now refute the logic. Because the fact is that McCain won the REPUBLICAN primary, and beat out several conservatives to do it. The minor leaguers like Duncan Hunter, the up and comers like Ron Paul, and the major leaguers like Mitt Romney (who may not be the ideal conservative, but he's better than John McCain).

Explain to me why, if The People (Republicans in particular) want a conservative, they didn't not vote for one in the primary?

And I would like you to address this without bringing Bush into it, because he wasn't running in 2008.

If you don't get a clue when I use Reagan as an example, you never will.
It's just that simple.

Gerald Ford won the nomination. People who think like you dutifully lined up and supported the party. Other people went back to work supporting Reagan. People like me said 'lesser of two evils is still evil'. People like you shouted "Ford Derangement Syndrome!!!"

After the disaster of losing to Carter, the GOP, had to face the music, that a moderate GOP'er was gonna have a tough time winning when real live Democrats could be had. Same thing happened to Dole in 1996.

Fortuneatly, Reagan made a strong enough showing in '76 that the party didn't have this huge civil war after Ford, everyone got behind him, defeated GHW Bush, the party elite choice, and the rest is history. Reagan was not perfect. He just avoided the HUGE mistakes that W did not.

Refute that.

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

If you don't get a clue when I use Reagan as an example, you never will.
It's just that simple.

Gerald Ford won the nomination. People who think like you dutifully lined up and supported the party. Other people went back to work supporting Reagan. People like me said 'lesser of two evils is still evil'. People like you shouted "Ford Derangement Syndrome!!!"

After the disaster of losing to Carter, the GOP, had to face the music, that a moderate GOP'er was gonna have a tough time winning when real live Democrats could be had. Same thing happened to Dole in 1996.

Fortuneatly, Reagan made a strong enough showing in '76 that the party didn't have this huge civil war after Ford, everyone got behind him, defeated GHW Bush, the party elite choice, and the rest is history. Reagan was not perfect. He just avoided the HUGE mistakes that W did not.

Refute that.

Way to sidestep the question.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by vraiblonde

Way to sidestep the question.

The question;

Explain to me why, if The People (Republicans in particular) want a conservative, they didn't not vote for one in the primary?

I see. So, whatever happens is what people actually want. So, McCain lost. You got what you wanted. Why aren't you happy with what you chose?

See, I've been operating under the assumption that you didn't want to lose the election. Now, I understand your reasoning; What happened, who people voted for is what people wanted.

You don't sound very happy about getting what you wanted.

[Jigglepuff (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

The Libertatian party does not have enough support or organizational power, at the moment, to get very far. If they do, the GOP will respond strongly enough to put them back on the margins.

I have no doubt that they will. I think with the success of certain Libertarians in the media, they will ride the coat tails and then use that momentum to regain "trust" and support for the Republican party.

I have sickening feeling that when they do that (and if they are successfull), we will get another "status quo" (or "status quo" on crack...Obama like) president.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Jigglepuff

I have no doubt that they will. I think with the success of certain Libertarians in the media, they will ride the coat tails and then use that momentum to regain "trust" and support for the Republican party.

I have sickening feeling that when they do that (and if they are successfull), we will get another "status quo" (or "status quo" on crack...Obama like) president.

See, this is what I keep coming back to; The left did NOT quit. They've been working and working and working and they got their guy; the most liberal Senator, a community activist, a real live socialist.

Many on the right just throw their hands up in the air, blame the media and go into an Eeyore routine.

A Palin or Jindal or Paul or whomever you like, if you support them, send them $25 a quarter, that allows them to build name recognition. Or people can just bytch about it, not support anyone and vote for whatever the party throws out there next time.

It's not like anyone has to be like ACORN nut, not have a job and it's all they do. The Internets makes it easy to find out the truth about people, their actual voting record, write them with concerns, send a few bucks. Support 'em.

[Toxick]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

If the GOP stuck to our alleged principles fairly well, there'd be no Libertarian party.

That's not necessarily true. Fiscally, Libertarians fall pretty much in line with conservative values. Unfettered Capitalism = Good for Everyone.

However, Libertarians stand diametrically opposed to the conservative values when it comes to things like gay marriage, legalizing the pot and boobies on TV.


The Libertarian Party was formed by people who want Democrats to keep their hands out of the backs of our pants (where the wallet is) and who also want the Republicans to keep their hands out of the fronts of our pants.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Toxick

That's not necessarily true. Fiscally, Libertarians fall pretty much in line with conservative values. Unfettered Capitalism = Good for Everyone.

However, Libertarians stand diametrically opposed to the conservative values when it comes to things like gay marriage, legalizing the pot and boobies on TV. That's true. I just never thought I'd live to see the GOP actually support a constitutional amendment limiting an individuals rights


The Libertarian Party was formed by people who want Democrats to keep their hands out of the backs of our pants (where the wallet is) and who also want the Republicans to keep their hands out of the fronts of our pants.

Point taken.