Is Libertarianism a lie?

[vraiblonde]

It seems to me all they want to do is bust on the Republicans and give the Dems a pass. To me, that makes them shills.

Now all of a sudden it's the "in" thing for everyone to pick at Republicans and conservatives in general. Democrats do it. Libertarians do it. And Republicans themselves do it. There are a handful of us who want to place the blame for Socialism where it belongs - right there with the Democrats. But we are in the minority - everyone else says it's all George Bush's fault.

Obama wants to shut down Tea Party protest?

Bush's fault.

Deficit sky-high and spending through the roof?

Bush's fault.

Stephen Gordon, Libertarian At Large, goes on Rachel Maddow and does he say a thing about the Dems? Noper! It's all the Republicans' fault. Mike Huckabee, Alan Keyes...it's all their fault. Not a word about Nancy Pelosi or Barack Obama - all Republicans all the time.

So there you go. And anyone who thinks the Dems won't be our masters for a very very long time is kidding themselves because they have no opposition.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

As a conservative, I've been attacking the GOP and Dems on what I think they've done wrong and what I think they are doing wrong, vigorously. No one on here responds more effectively to Obama than me.

If the GOP wants to keep doing what Bush did, failing on energy, government expansion and cost, socializing the economy, entitlements, nation building, they're not getting my support either. The bail outs do NOT happen unless Bush starts them.

If libertarians support Obama, they aren't getting any support from me. He promised to be worse than Bush and he hasn't disappointed.

If the GOP was good enough for you, keep supporting them. We couldn't be where we are now without 'em opening the door for the avowed socialists!

[This_person]

Originally Posted by vraiblonde

It seems to me all they want to do is bust on the Republicans and give the Dems a pass. To me, that makes them shills.

Now all of a sudden it's the "in" thing for everyone to pick at Republicans and conservatives in general. Democrats do it. Libertarians do it. And Republicans themselves do it. There are a handful of us who want to place the blame for Socialism where it belongs - right there with the Democrats. But we are in the minority - everyone else says it's all George Bush's fault.

Obama wants to shut down Tea Party protest?

Bush's fault.

Deficit sky-high and spending through the roof?

Bush's fault.

Stephen Gordon, Libertarian At Large, goes on Rachel Maddow and does he say a thing about the Dems? Noper! It's all the Republicans' fault. Mike Huckabee, Alan Keyes...it's all their fault. Not a word about Nancy Pelosi or Barack Obama - all Republicans all the time.

So there you go. And anyone who thinks the Dems won't be our masters for a very very long time is kidding themselves because they have no opposition.

All politics is sales.

People know libertarians for their small government, low intrusion, isolationist stands. They have to compete with the GOP on those general platform planks for prospective voters. The meat and potatoes, have substance issues.

For Democrat voters, all they have to compete with is legalizing drugs. They stand against Democrats on pretty much every other issue, and with the GOP on pretty much every other issue. And, let's face it, the "legalize drugs" crowd are usually idiots (no offense Larry - I don't find you an idiot at all except for that stance), so they're not worried too much about trying to get those folks.

So, if you're trying to sell your product, do you target people you know disagree with you, or people you think agree with you mostly?

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by This_person

And, let's face it, the "legalize drugs" crowd are usually idiots (no offense Larry - I don't find you an idiot at all except for that stance), so they're not worried too much about trying to get those folks.

[Bann (Premo)]

I think it's true that the Libertarians tend to be that way, in general. They need to realize, however, that if they had a real alternative candidate who would be so desirable - that sensible, rational people on boths sides of the political aisle would vote for them. So far, I've seen no candidate from them who could pull it off. It's not because they're not well known or can't get the press. The tea parties got press - good or bad - they got press. People will be/are listening and some will change their points of view due to it. Same with the Libertarians. If they had a good enough (all around) platform and candidate, it would sell.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Bann

I think it's true that the Libertarians tend to be that way, in general. They need to realize, however, that if they had a real alternative candidate who would be so desirable - that sensible, rational people on boths sides of the political aisle would vote for them. So far, I've seen no candidate from them who could pull it off. It's not because they're not well known or can't get the press. The tea parties got press - good or bad - they got press. People will be/are listening and some will change their points of view due to it. Same with the Libertarians. If they had a good enough (all around) platform and candidate, it would sell.

If the GOP stuck to our alleged principles fairly well, there'd be no Libertarian party. Lotta people think the GOP has done good enough. Lotta people don't. They're angry, they're frustrated, they're looking for solutions.

[Beta84]

Originally Posted by Bann

I think it's true that the Libertarians tend to be that way, in general. They need to realize, however, that if they had a real alternative candidate who would be so desirable - that sensible, rational people on boths sides of the political aisle would vote for them. So far, I've seen no candidate from them who could pull it off. It's not because they're not well known or can't get the press. The tea parties got press - good or bad - they got press. People will be/are listening and some will change their points of view due to it. Same with the Libertarians. If they had a good enough (all around) platform and candidate, it would sell.

Just a note...this is my observations from what I saw on the Libertarian website including their platform. If my opinions are inaccurate...sorry. Anyway...

The Libertarian party is pretty strange IMO. While Libertarians are supposedly more socially liberal but fiscally conservative, they have went much closer to the Republican party, with the addition of some radical ideas that are just absurd. The reason they don't get good candidates or many votes is because they have too many stances that are too tough for most people to swallow.

If the Libertarian party modified their stances somewhat, they'd get a large increase in votes. There are a ton of socially liberal/economically conservative people in this country that they could steal from both the Dems and Republicans if they played their cards right. Of course, they don't...and as Larry said...once the Republicans get their crap together, the Libertarian party will probably get crushed.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Beta84

..once the Republicans get their crap together, the Libertarian party will probably get crushed.

I did not mean to imply it was a sure thing the GOP would get it together.

However, McCain got 60 million votes as is and Paul and the others got nothing. So, the GOP will be battling if McCain was too far left.

Or not enough.

THAT is the question as to whether the GOP gets it or if they will just dress up another moderate, like W, in conservative clothing and sell him/her as the "New and Improved Compassionate, yet More Right Leaning, Conservative".

[Beta84]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

I did not mean to imply it was a sure thing the GOP would get it together.

However, McCain got 60 million votes as is and Paul and the others got nothing. So, the GOP will be battling if McCain was too far left.

Or not enough.

THAT is the question as to whether the GOP gets it or if they will just dress up another moderate, like W, in conservative clothing and sell him/her as the "New and Improved Compassionate, yet More Right Leaning, Conservative".

I made the ASSumption that the GOP would eventually get it together. Not saying that'll happen any time soon though

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Beta84

I made the ASSumption that the GOP would eventually get it together. Not saying that'll happen any time soon though

This is why I yell and scream and rant all the time about them; I do NOT want another George Bush foisted on my country. I want a CONSERVATIVE.

If I can't have that, then at least I'll get one closer to being a conservative than if I had just gone along with the lesser evil idea and supported McCain or any yellow dog the GOP offered up.

You'll note that the left is desperately trying to blame all our wrongs and ills of the Bush years on conservatism when it is precisely that Bush made
UN-conservative decisions that is THE problem. The left is trying to place the blame on conservatism because they know damn well that it is the antidote, the potent medicine, that could end their evil plans.

In one of the great ironies of politics, the one person the left owes the most to is George Bush. He gave them things they could have struggled to get on their own; socializing the economy, further expanding entitlements, etc, etc.