Speaker Hoyer?

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Tilted

Well then, here's what you do. Find someone to leak a story that 'leadership within the Democrat party' have been seriously considering a push to remove Biden from the 2012 ticket. They are 'in the early stages' of negotiations that could allow him to be replaced by Nancy Pelosi, whose star has risen fast among liberals over the last decade. Speculation is that this move is designed to position her as the clear Democratic nominee for 2016. The Democratic leadership apparently hopes to build on its established image as 'the party of inclusion', by following up its successful effort to put the first non-white President in office, and put the first female President in office.

Then, sit back and let her own party take her down. I'd bet there is at least one high level Democrat who isn't about to let himself be stepped over, and multiple others who have designs on being their Presidential nominee some day, who don't want to see that position locked up for the next 12-16 years. Furthermore, I'm sure that the smart people, who make the strategic decisions within the party, don't want Pelosi for a candidate - anyone can see that she's just Hillary Clinton without any of the likable qualities.

To be clear, no one in the Democratic party needs to believe that the leaked story is true, they just need to wonder if it is someone among them floating a trial balloon.

(This is cool - we're thinking like Democrats now. )

It's not thinking like 'Democrats', it's 'Machiavilian' and they sure as hell don't hold the patent on that. Much of what Bush did, his first hand outs at tax time, the explosion of medicaid, TARP, letting oil be, leaving Fanny alone, the latter handouts, bailing out the car people, most of the war rhetoric, was Machiavellian, bad faith scheming to get your way.

I think we're being a bit naive if we're looking for sincerity in politics. I believe plenty of people have good motives but I also believe their core principles are core only so far as is necessary to get their way.

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

And we can discuss the word 'impeached' while we're at it.

And after we discuss "impeached" we can ask, "So what?" It's not like he suffered any for it - not even a loss of good public opinion. His inept VP almost won the presidency. His wife won a Senate seat and almost won the Dem nomination. He himself is considered an elder statesman.

I doubt Bill Clinton has spent one second worrying about being "impeached".

[ImnoMensa]

Originally Posted by This_person

Yes, and yes.While Steny may benefit, SoMD won't. Maybe in the short, selfish terms, but not in the long, Americanized view. What fundamental difference is there for America if Pelosi or Hoyer are Speaker?

We'd benefit from a disappearance of both of these individuals in the House much, much, much more than we would benefit from rearranging the chairs of failed leadership.

Bingo: Right answer.

Trading the Devil for the Deep Blue Sea will not hold back the tide of bad legislation coming from this Congress.

[Tilted]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

It's not thinking like 'Democrats', it's 'Machiavilian' and they sure as hell don't hold the patent on that. Much of what Bush did, his first hand outs at tax time, the explosion of medicaid, TARP, letting oil be, leaving Fanny alone, the latter handouts, bailing out the car people, most of the war rhetoric, was Machiavellian, bad faith scheming to get your way.

I think we're being a bit naive if we're looking for sincerity in politics. I believe plenty of people have good motives but I also believe their core principles are core only so far as is necessary to get their way.

I don't disagree at all.

Originally Posted by vraiblonde

And after we discuss "impeached" we can ask, "So what?" It's not like he suffered any for it - not even a loss of good public opinion. His inept VP almost won the presidency. His wife won a Senate seat and almost won the Dem nomination. He himself is considered an elder statesman.

I doubt Bill Clinton has spent one second worrying about being "impeached".

He probably uses it as a pick-up line. 'Hey honey, wanna try to get me impeached again?'

[huntr1]

Originally Posted by vraiblonde

And after we discuss "impeached" we can ask, "So what?" It's not like he suffered any for it - not even a loss of good public opinion. His inept VP almost won the presidency. His wife won a Senate seat and almost won the Dem nomination. He himself is considered an elder statesman.

I doubt Bill Clinton has spent one second worrying about being "impeached".

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by vraiblonde

And after we discuss "impeached" we can ask, "So what?" It's not like he suffered any for it - not even a loss of good public opinion. His inept VP almost won the presidency. His wife won a Senate seat and almost won the Dem nomination. He himself is considered an elder statesman.

I doubt Bill Clinton has spent one second worrying about being "impeached".

What do you use as a basis for 'So what?'

Are you leaving out the GOP winning congress? Much of legislation being favorable from a GOP standpoint? Bush winning in 2000 with solid congressional majorities? A healthy economy?

When you say "So what?' what are you looking for? Clinton was basically owned by the GOP for 6 years and it worked pretty good for the nation as a whole.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Tilted

He probably uses it as a pick-up line. 'Hey honey, wanna try to get me impeached again?'

:

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by huntr1

I'll ask you the same question;

What do you use as a basis for 'So what?'

Are you leaving out the GOP winning congress? Much of legislation being favorable from a GOP standpoint? Bush winning in 2000 with solid congressional majorities? A healthy economy?

When you say "So what?' what are you looking for? Clinton was basically owned by the GOP for 6 years and it worked pretty good for the nation as a whole.

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

Are you leaving out the GOP winning congress? Much of legislation being favorable from a GOP standpoint? Bush winning in 2000 with solid congressional majorities? A healthy economy?

So what? Where are we now, 10 years later?

Clinton was basically owned by the GOP for 6 years and it worked pretty good for the nation as a whole.

It did?

[Pete (Premo)]

Nancy has 2 battles, which I think she will win. First she now has to face a hypocritical uber leftist constituency back in San Francisco who railed abut Bush torturing. Now that they found out Nancy not only knew but she did nothing about it will they oust her? Hell no they wont. They will believe "They are lying she did not know." or "It really doesn't matter anymore, its over." and go right on punching the chad next to her name.

Next she has to win election as the Speaker next congress. I think she is the Iron Maiden who rules with an iron fist and no democrat would dare facing off against her let alone Steny.