Who's to blame

[This_person]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

The person I sell 100 plants to. Who then turns around and sells it to a bigger company who turns around and sells it to you for more than I would have sold one plant to you for.

Now, just imagine if everyone in that food chain owned some politicians to help keep competitors out of our area.

Okay, so how does that compare to insurance rates? No one is turning around and selling their insurance to someone else to repackage it for more than we paid for it.

We have insurance companies having two potential consumers - large companies that can band together large numbers of individual payers (buying 100 plants at a time), or indivuduals sprinkling in buying one policy (plant) at a time. Unless you think BC/BS is buying insurance from others, then repackaging it to those companies providing their employees insurance at a higher rate than the employees could get it themselves, your thought process breaks down.

If you do think that BC/BS (et al) are repackaging cheaper insurance that could be obtained by individuals one at a time, then please let me know where I could buy that insurance, because my plan with my company is optional, and I'd love to pay less than me and 4,999 other people can get as a group.

[bcp]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

You are a perfect candidate for Obamacare; you seem to like being part of a group.

You seem to be very happy with the big insurance companies, the big plans and the big cost.

I dont think thats what he is saying.
lets put it this way.

before you can sell a flower, it has to be approved by some government office for exacting flower standards. Allergy testing etc... this could take a few years before you get flower approval from the Department of flowers.
then you have to put safety labels on all flowers warning people of any possible side effect from eating the flower, allergies, what could happen if you try to use it to clean out your ears, or shove mass quantities of the flower up your nose.
Once you do get the permission from the government to sell your flower, you can pretty much count on being sued because the flower wilted before its time, (you should have put a length of value on the ticket) or some asshat tries to clean out his tear ducts with it and ends up scratching his eye (you forgot to warn people not to poke themselves in the eye)
of course lets not forget that after a year or so, some remote study finds that you have not sold proportionately to a certain segment of society, and now you are going to have to remedy this in some way at your expense.
then we find that there are people that just cant afford your flower so the government demands that you provide that flower for free to these people.

wonder how much that flower will end up costing the paying public after all of this.

[aps45819]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

That's right and not for the reason you meant. The big healthcare companies are very much like BG&E; near monopolies that are not interested in you or me.

You're right. They are in business to make a profit. That's why my company negotiating a price for 1,000 peoplew can get a better deal than I can on my own.
They are only monoplies where the politicians have only liscensed one provider to sell insurance in any given area.

Originally Posted by MMDad

Look at who is really getting rich from healthcare, and then you'll understand why it costs so much.

Who should we punish and why?

Lawyers. The win every lawsuit.

[wootie73]

all of the above

[Cowgirl]

I find it interesting that when I had surgery when I had no insurance, the anesthesiologist charged me $400 (because I had no insurance) and told me he normally charged $800 when they bill insurance.

[MMDad]

Wirelessly posted (Change we can believe in!: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.7) 320x240; VZW; Motorola-Q9c; Windows Mobile 6.0 Standard)

Originally Posted by This_person

You basically answered this with "nobody is".

Who do you think is getting rich from it? Who's to blame?

The only blame I see is for people who demand top notch care, yet think it isn't worth the price.

The only way to lower costs is to cut services. Rationed care, denying care to the sickest, and having overall lower quality.

We want our Prime Rib, but we think we should be paying hamburger prices.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by This_person

Well, let's see.....

I talked about competition from the free market......
I talked about individuals having actual choice.......
I talked about knowing what you're paying, all of it........
I talked about absolutely no government involvement......


Where do you get that I'd be good for Obamacare?

The only "group" I talked about being a part of was a choice to the consumer to band together with people they work with for a better rate.

A third party payer is NOT a free market. When someone else is paying for something for you, it will end up costing more and delivering less. I am not capable of making it any simpler than that.

[Alexa]

I don't believe the problems within healthcare can be pinned down to one thing or one person.

Is it doctors? Yes, there are doctors that are all about the money and there "true" doctors who actually care about the patients they are treating. Doctors incure sooooo much cost and soooooo much time to get to the point of actually practicing medicine. They are forced to charge sooooo much so that they can live like human beings and pay off all that debt. On top of that they have soooooo much costs in malpractice insurance. Yet somehow, with all this cost, many are still able to afford to live very well despite the costs. So we pay higher costs to cover the education, internship, insurance, overhead and lavish lifestyle they deserve, just so they can treat us.

Is it lawyers? Yes, there are attorney's that will litigate anything that comes through the door no matter how frivolous. It isn't about the merits of the complaints, but more of a crap shoot because there is money to be had and who knows if this one will be the one to bring in the windfall. Yet, we need attorney's, because through this whole ocean of crap, there are those rare people in legitimate need due to one of those quack doctors mentioned above. Those frivolous costs are passed on to us as the attorney fees can be quite high, especially a good one. What other "legal" job can you get in which your paid hundreds of dollars and hour.

Is it drug companies? Yes, it is. They are legalized drug lords if you really take a look at them. Their commercials resound the old Jefferson Airplane song..Alice...a pill for everything. It is why the question of legalization of marijuana seems like a sensible one. It isn't any different and perhaps safer than some of the drugs the pharmaceuticals are peddling to us now. But on the other hand, they spend enormous amounts of money for breakthrough medicines that save the lives of so many. But again, if you look behind the curtains at the principles, with the enormous costs, they are living quite well and lavish despite it all. Those costs are passed on to us.

Is it insurance companies? Yes,sadly, their goal in getting into the health industry has nothing to do with actually giving a crap about a patient and their needs. Their goal is to make money and they will go to any lengths to make it, even if it means denying you the care you need to live. It's all about the bottom line. Yet, could any of us afford medical care without them? And there are those that actually treat you well. Their costs are passed on to us.

Is it government? Yes, those slimy buggers on the hill are in the pockets of the lobbyist from the groups mentioned above. It is all about them, what's it going to take to keep them in office and living off the teet for the rest of their lives. It isn't about what is best for the country and the betterment of the people, but the betterment of the interest group that grease their palms in one way or another. It is so bad, they are nothing more than puppets anymore. On the other hand, the government now needs to be there with smart regulation that will remove all the havoc it has sewn for far to long now. We can wait til we're blue in the face for any government with integrity to step up to the plate. In the meantime we pick up the costs.

Can we all take a good hard look in the mirror? Yes, and we will all see the guilty parties standing there and each and every single one of us, if we are honest with ourselves, know where we fail. From the way we care for ourselves to being part of the keg in the wheel that brings the costs up. It's all about .........

[EmptyTimCup]

Lawyers but not for the reason you mentioned :


TORT Reform is needed ........ MALPRACTICE insurance is outrageous

[This_person]

Originally Posted by Alexa

I don't believe the problems within healthcare can be pinned down to one thing or one person.

Is it doctors? Yes, there are doctors that are all about the money and there "true" doctors who actually care about the patients they are treating. Doctors incure sooooo much cost and soooooo much time to get to the point of actually practicing medicine. They are forced to charge sooooo much so that they can live like human beings and pay off all that debt. On top of that they have soooooo much costs in malpractice insurance. Yet somehow, with all this cost, many are still able to afford to live very well despite the costs. So we pay higher costs to cover the education, internship, insurance, overhead and lavish lifestyle they deserve, just so they can treat us.

Is it lawyers? Yes, there are attorney's that will litigate anything that comes through the door no matter how frivolous. It isn't about the merits of the complaints, but more of a crap shoot because there is money to be had and who knows if this one will be the one to bring in the windfall. Yet, we need attorney's, because through this whole ocean of crap, there are those rare people in legitimate need due to one of those quack doctors mentioned above. Those frivolous costs are passed on to us as the attorney fees can be quite high, especially a good one. What other "legal" job can you get in which your paid hundreds of dollars and hour.

Is it drug companies? Yes, it is. They are legalized drug lords if you really take a look at them. Their commercials resound the old Jefferson Airplane song..Alice...a pill for everything. It is why the question of legalization of marijuana seems like a sensible one. It isn't any different and perhaps safer than some of the drugs the pharmaceuticals are peddling to us now. But on the other hand, they spend enormous amounts of money for breakthrough medicines that save the lives of so many. But again, if you look behind the curtains at the principles, with the enormous costs, they are living quite well and lavish despite it all. Those costs are passed on to us.

Is it insurance companies? Yes,sadly, their goal in getting into the health industry has nothing to do with actually giving a crap about a patient and their needs. Their goal is to make money and they will go to any lengths to make it, even if it means denying you the care you need to live. It's all about the bottom line. Yet, could any of us afford medical care without them? And there are those that actually treat you well. Their costs are passed on to us.

Is it government? Yes, those slimy buggers on the hill are in the pockets of the lobbyist from the groups mentioned above. It is all about them, what's it going to take to keep them in office and living off the teet for the rest of their lives. It isn't about what is best for the country and the betterment of the people, but the betterment of the interest group that grease their palms in one way or another. It is so bad, they are nothing more than puppets anymore. On the other hand, the government now needs to be there with smart regulation that will remove all the havoc it has sewn for far to long now. We can wait til we're blue in the face for any government with integrity to step up to the plate. In the meantime we pick up the costs.

Can we all take a good hard look in the mirror? Yes, and we will all see the guilty parties standing there and each and every single one of us, if we are honest with ourselves, know where we fail. From the way we care for ourselves to being part of the keg in the wheel that brings the costs up. It's all about .........

The general flavor here was my point all along. Thanks!