School Year VS Genetics.

[bcp (Premo)]

Is it possible to overcome genetic differences in IQ by adding more hours of classroom instruction for those with lower scores.
When making a comparison of success in education, those with Asian background beat their U.S counterparts every time. (almost), the study linked here indicates that the average IQ for an American student is around 100, the average for the Asian is 106.

The study indicates that the difference in IQ begins to show in children around the age of 3, leaving out the idea that a better education is to be credited for this difference.
MRI readings will also indicate that the Asian brain is larger on average than the brain in the U.S student.

Face it guys, if these tests have any real basis in truth, there is not much we can do to excel beyond the educational excellence of the Asian people.
The numbers can be applied in such a manner to show that the difference in IQ is related to the difference in educational outcomes between the groups, however one must remember that the numbers can be "worked" to show anything that the author is trying to prove.

Research in this area shows that the top learners in the U.S are neck to neck with the top learners in Asian countries, it also shows the same for the lower learners in both areas. These results are recorded even though the U.S is spending almost 40 hours a year less in the class room.

And the the fact that the difference is only 40 hours, even with a full year school. If the student is going to school for an additional 2.5 months, yet the difference in hours is only 40, that indicates a much shorter school day. Is it possible that the shorter day actually prevents the students from "burning out" or getting bored, and at the same time shifts more of the education onto the parents? Again with my theory that Parents are the key.

Even with additional class hours, longer school years etc... I don't think that the U.S is up to the challenge of beating out what appears to be a genetically superior people.

The Worldwide Pattern of IQ Scores. East Asians average higher on IQ tests than Whites, both in the U. S. and in Asia, even though IQ tests were developed for use in the Euro-American culture. Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; for Whites, about 100

[libertytyranny]

The difference between 100 and 106 is negligible. if two people had those IQ scores..they would perform almost exactly alike.

[bcp (Premo)]

Originally Posted by libertytyranny

The difference between 100 and 106 is negligible. if two people had those IQ scores..they would perform almost exactly alike.

true, however the difference becomes greater as the numbers are multiplied for a combined score.

[Aerogal]

IQ is not so much based on what you know, but how capable you are to process information and reasoning skills. It's no wonder that a majority of American children are incapable of reasoning, due more to the way our society treats them. We (parents, schools, society) coddle and baby them, don't make them accountable for their actions (or failures if due to laziness), we don't challenge their thinking and reasoning skills, and don't instill in them the self discipline it takes to learn and retain knowledge and develop wisdom.

We no longer prepare them to be intelligent grownups like they do in east Asia. It doesn't take a village to raise a child, but one sure can raise an idiot!

[bcp (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Aerogal

IQ is not so much based on what you know, but how capable you are to process information and reasoning skills. It's no wonder that a majority of American children are incapable of reasoning, due more to the way our society treats them. We (parents, schools, society) coddle and baby them, don't make them accountable for their actions (or failures if due to laziness), we don't challenge their thinking and reasoning skills, and don't instill in them the self discipline it takes to learn and retain knowledge and develop wisdom.

We no longer prepare them to be intelligent grownups like they do in east Asia. It doesn't take a village to raise a child, but one sure can raise an idiot!

First. IQ is not something that can be taught.

however, I agree with you, parents, or at least a good number of parents, are NOT challenging their children to learn to their full capacity. So, even with a fairly high IQ, without education, the child will still not reach full potential.
On the other side of it, You are not going to teach Forrest Gump to perform Brain sugery.

[Aerogal]

Originally Posted by bcp

First. IQ is not something that can be taught.

however, I agree with you, parents, or at least a good number of parents, are NOT challenging their children to learn to their full capacity. So, even with a fairly high IQ, without education, the child will still not reach full potential.
On the other side of it, You are not going to teach Forrest Gump to perform Brain sugery.

Where did I say IQ could be taught? I said that we don't challenge their thinking and reasoning skills, that is not 'teaching'. My son has a learning disability, he has to work harder to learn 'stuff', but does amazingly well on reasoning skills. I have taught him to use those skills when trying to learn simple tasks when he was younger because of his difficulty.
He smart, but not book smart so he does well on IQ tests.

[twinoaks207 (Premo)]

Not sure exactly where I am with this one so here are some random thoughts pending more research/information:

1. First, how un-PC of you to start a thread like this in the first place! (sorry, just HAD to say this! )
2. IQ cannot be taught, however, learning the skills to maximize the potential inherent in the IQ score CAN be taught.
3. Nature vs. nurture is an on-going argument and I could find many research articles on both sides of the issue if I took the time to look.
4. I agree with you that interested, invested, committed parents are key to academic achievement with our children. It is vital to ensure that our children reach maximum potential.
5. While this may be true in looking at IQ purely through the lens of genetics, I believe that true intelligence is a combination of many factors including: innate ability (genetics), quality of early development (from pre-natal care on up), economic status, mental health status, quality of of living environment, and other factors. I do not believe that looking at only one aspect of intelligence (the genetics one) is enough to base a conclusion upon.
6. I do not think that more school time will help across the board for increasing academic achievement. It would make a difference for the lower-achieving/borderline achieving students as far as testing results. However, what we gain in testing (questionable value) we would lose in social growth in that students would have less opportunities to interact in positive manners with families and the community at-large. Can we really afford this? You won't see this discussed because it is difficult to "measure" and God knows, education policy makers dearly love their "assessment results".

Interesting area for discussion, though! Kudos for sparking the conversation!

[shiki]

Very interesting thread. I don't know if it is simply nature v. nurture but I do know that challenging and even interacting with a child will determine whether IQ is maximized. I'm not arguing that IQ can be taught but I do know that if a child is not interacted within it's earliest years the child will not achieve normal intelligence level. I base this on what we have learned studying the feral children. I think we can tweak intelligence by making sure we challenge our children from the moment they arrive. I think that if you expect more you get more. And for the main part stupid parents raise stupid kids. That's a generalization of course :)

[aps45819 (Premo)]

Originally Posted by bcp

MRI readings will also indicate that the Asian brain is larger on average than the brain in the U.S student.

Thank God we have bigger penises

[bcp (Premo)]

Originally Posted by shiki

Very interesting thread. I don't know if it is simply nature v. nurture

Kinda what I was thinking.
Ponder this.
two students.
one has a tested and verified IQ of 120
the other has a tested and verified IQ of 100
Both raised by the same parents with the same attention to their needs.

Both students end up in all the same courses, and both students make perfect grades.
are they both equal?

Maybe, the one with the 100 IQ understands the principles of engineering and is able to build without a flaw a skyscraper.
yet, the one with the 120 IQ with the exact education ends up being the one to design the next generation of skyscrapers.

Learning and using are one thing
Learning and improving is another.