Zero Tolerance is Stupid ....

[EmptyTimCup]

.... what about intent ....

Soldier suspended from school

But the dream could be in jeopardy, thanks to a two-inch pocket knife that officials at Lansingburgh Senior High School found in Matthew's locked car last month. The pocket knife was a gift from his grandfather, Robert Whalen, who's the Hoosick Falls Police Chief. Matthew says he kept the knife in a side compartment and never tried showing it off or threatening anyone with it. Instead it was a part of the survival kit that was his car.

"My car is designed in a way that if I ever broke down, I'd be OK," Whalen explains. "I have a sleeping bag. I have bottled water. I have an MRE. I believe it's better to be prepared and not need it than need it and not have it."

Matthew says school officials approached him on Sept. 21, asking if he had a weapon on him. When Matthew answered he did not, he says the officials asked if he had a knife in his car. Matthew said it was a pocket knife, and took officials to his car when asked. He also turned over the pocket knife when asked.

The Lansingburgh Central School District has a zero-tolerance policy on weapons. According to the district's Codes of Conduct, students are not allowed to have "a weapon of any kind" on school grounds. Even though a pocket knife is not considered a weapon under New York State penal code, the district also prohibits students from possessing anything "that reasonably can be considered a weapon."

According to Matthew, the school suspended him for five days, during which time a Superintendent's hearing was held to determine the extent of his punishment. Matthew's family contends only the high school's principal and athletic director were present, not the Superintendent or the assistant principal who initially suspended Matthew. And despite a letter from Matthew's Scout Master explaining how a pocket knife is a common tool for scouts to have, the district suspended Matthew for another 15 days. The Whalens say they received no explanation as to why, and they claim there was no opportunity to ask.

"I want him to have fair treatment based on his character," says Matthew's father, Bryan Whalen. "It just totally baffles me that they would go after this when they have much bigger fish to fry."

The Whalens say during the Superintendent's hearing, officials admitted that Matthew cooperated fully, didn't have the pocket knife on him, had no intention of using it, and never threatened anyone with it. "They'd already made their decision," Whalen's father says.

In a statement to NEWS10, Superintendent George J. Goodwin says, "We do not comment on discipline related to an individual student. Our policies are clear that weapons are not permitted on school premises and subject to disciplinary consequences."

Legal expert Thomas Carr, of Tully Rinckey PLLC, says school districts are within their rights to impose and enforce safety policies, even if a pocket knife is not considered a weapon under New York State penal law. But he also says such school rules can quickly become so-called "gray areas" that leave the meaning of what's considered a weapon open ended.

[ImnoMensa]

The story says that no weopon of any kind is allowed in that school.

The problem is one of the idiots running the school not knowing what a weapon is. A pencil can be a weapon, dotey have a baseball tea,? More people have been killed with baseball bats than pocket knives. Sure a switchblade is a weapon, but a pocket knife is a tool. I doubt this boy was going out to his car and bring in his posket knife and slay5 or 6 kids with it.

Common sense has dissappeared in schools.

[rhenderson]

ZERO TOLERANCE = ZERO JUDGEMENT!!

This happens thousands of times every year all the country. Kids have been suspended for bringing a simple butter knife to school to cut a birthday cake, voluntarily turning in a pocket knife that had been left in their backpack during weekend camping trip and inadvertently taken to school Monday morning. A teen age girl was suspended for giving a friend a Midol for menstrual cramps because the school system had a ZERO Tolerance policy for drugs.

No manager/adminstrator/supervisor/principal has to exercise any judgement when they can hide behind the Zedro Tolerance concept.

[eddy1]

Something about this story doesn't sound right. This kid said the knife is there for survival, he doesn't show it off, then how was it the school district knew to ask him about a weapon, then just happen to find it in his car.

[glhs837]

sounds like someone turned him in. ex-girlfriend, maybe?

[itsbob (Premo)]

Originally Posted by glhs837

sounds like someone turned him in. ex-girlfriend, maybe?

Can't be.. there's no such thing as coniving, treacherous girls that would do anything to hurt someone.

[Rommey]

According to Matthew, the school suspended him for five days, during which time a Superintendent's hearing was held to determine the extent of his punishment. [snip] ...the district suspended Matthew for another 15 days.

This is where this loses me for a bit. The total suspension is 20 days. They are "punishing" him by suspending him for 5 days then starting his real punishment of 15 days.

The Whalens say they received no explanation as to why, and they claim there was no opportunity to ask.

This is the scary part of this. Totalitarian-like rule in the schools on issues like this, yet a total (OK maybe a bit of an exaggeration) lack of control in the class. It seems odd to me that the lack of communication with the parents is something that the school district feels is OK.

This situation is similar to the one from a couple of years ago that was an equally stupid enforcement of "Zero-Tolerance". I remember the student was a straight-A student who happened to bring aspirin (Tylenol or Advil) and was suspended for having "drugs" on school property.

Common sense isn't that common after all. And these are the people teaching our youths.

[EmptyTimCup]

Originally Posted by Rommey

This situation is similar to the one from a couple of years ago that was an equally stupid enforcement of "Zero-Tolerance". I remember the student was a straight-A student who happened to bring aspirin (Tylenol or Advil) and was suspended for having "drugs" on school property.

I believe that involved the strip search of a 12? yr old ....

[ImnoMensa]

Originally Posted by rhenderson

ZERO TOLERANCE = ZERO JUDGEMENT!!


No manager/adminstrator/supervisor/principal has to exercise any judgement when they can hide behind the Zedro Tolerance concept.

You almost have to admit that is a good thing. There are damned few Manager/administrator, supervisor/principals who have good judgement.

That is why Zero tolerance exists.That is why they use it as an excuse for stupid actions.