What can the Donks say about this?

[Alexa]

Originally Posted by bcp

FDRs spending brought us out of the depression? really? what if you look at the full picture of that time vs todays situation and remedy.

With the involvement in WWII, the majority of males found themselves in the military. Employed. Even those that had previously been out of work, now found themselves in a paying position. Maybe not the best, but still, there was money coming in.

When the men all had to leave for service it left a huge gap in the work force, this caused women that had never worked before to take up the jobs that the men had left behind.

Unemployment fell, fell fast as the war effort got underway. Now, we have many two income families. Time to get that new car, the new house, new toys for the kids etc.. right? wrong, most factories were retooled to make weapons and other needed items for the military.

So what happens to all the money people are suddenly making? really cant do much with it but stick it in the bank. Savings went up.
Naturally, after the war there was all this money in peoples hands that then was spent on things like homes, cars, clothing, vacations etc.. and we saw the boom of the 50s and the realization of the American dream.

lets look at today.
huge influx of dollars to places that are really not serving any purpose. Most of that money is going to fix a previous loss instead of going into creating future wealth.

There are no new jobs to be had in great numbers, Our product is out there, but its stagnating on the shelves and the factories are laying off. They have nowhere to turn as they did in the great depression.

As higher fuel prices, food prices, taxes, tarp, contributions for health care etc... eat into the dwindling income that people have, we are seeing much less saving, less buying.
Even when this "depression" is officially over, the masses will be left with no savings, so we can not expect to see that slingshot effect in spending that we did during the 50s.

First and easiest step could be as simple as drilling our own oil and not depending on the grace of the Saudis to keep the price of fuel at an affordable rate.
Right now, because of our money leaving this country for oil, the economic health of our nation is in the hands of some countries that would love to see us fail. Makes sense doesn't it?

Since alternative fuel sources are not just around the corner, we really have little choice but to continue using the fossil fuels, we might at well use our own. And, at the same time, if we are going to go into debt by giving out money that we don't have, we should be giving it in large quantities to companies devoted to creating alternatives. Hmmm, what if GM would have been allowed to fail, and instead, the money the got was used for research into affordable, reliable alternate energy transportation.




What we need right now is for our costs to come under control, we need the lower fuel costs, we need to forget about TARP, and the Health Insurance. The country needs to find a way to allow people to increase savings instead of burning through it.

The economic plan is exactly opposite of what this country needs to pick itself up again and insure a prosperous future.

It goes without saying that WWII got us out of the Great Depression. I think ideology dictates how the numbers are interpreted today. I am in the camp that says the spending was working. The numbers were moving in the right direction. Had the war not happened, then we would have been in the Depression longer, but I think it was working. We will never know 100% what would have happened...the war came and the rest is history.

The homecoming wasn't all that smooth as you portray. What can be said is that when the war was over, the men came home and the wives were shoved back into the kitchen....it was sometime after that the two income family we know today came into play. The caveat of it all was that the men had someplace to go to work too, were given decent wages and therefore were able to thrive in the manner they were.

And that brings us to what is wrong today. We stopped building anything in this country. Jobs have been outsourced and of those that have stayed....those wages have been stagnant for many decades now. No wonder we have to have a two income family to get by these days and make it any where.

I am in agreement with you in that we need to get jobs to Main Street. I am in agreement that the stimulus has failed Main Street on so many levels. I am in agreement that we need to find alternative fuels instead of buying it from other countries, but....here is where ideology comes into play....I don't agree that drilling is the answer. The bottom line is that we do not have the reserves that other oil producing nations have. If we did, I would be right along side of you saying drill baby drill, but we don't and it won't. We need to go to sources that we have plenty of. While some alternatives may be off, there are some some that are available now. Look at what Brazil did in the Seventies after their oil crisis....They played it smart, made alternative fuels from plants (I think it was sugar) and can now give the finger with glee. We should do the same. We have ample lands to do so. We have plenty of natural gas and other sources that I believe can be implemented right now.

I also think the President has a good idea with the infrastructure and energy plans to get the nation back to work...However, I don't see it being implemented. If he is putting that on the agenda, he is waaay to slow on it and if he isn't...then we're screwed. While I think Health Care is an important issue, I agree that it needs to be put on a back burner and that getting the country back to work with descent wages once again is the most important task at hand. Once that is done, then health care can be addressed. While environmental factors should be implemented when they can be, I do think some of it can be addressed once people are back to work.

I think the President had an agenda and is driven on getting it through despite the economic turmoil. Unfortunately, in doing so, I believe he is causing prolonged suffering. People need to work...need to make a descent wage....the economy won't go anywhere until that happens.

[Alexa]

Originally Posted by awpitt

Interetsing chart which shows Dems preside over lower deficits while Repubs preside over higher deficits. The situation now is a result of Obama trying to solve in 18 months the problems W and the Repubs created over the last two terms.

[struggler44]

Reagan followed the biggest failure as the POTUS in Carter and Lil' Bush's first term followed Clinton who decimated our national defense and left the mess for someone else who happened to be G.W.. I am a conservative Independant and both sides have failed in certain areas and as big as the title of POTUS is, there will be short falls. BHO is devastating us as a nation and a world economy leader and the damage may never be repaired, may be offset and covered but never repaired. It's a sad time to be a fuctioning,responsible citizen in this society as WE, the backbone of the nation, are being used and underminded by the power of a few and the ignorance of many.

(My rant is over)

[MMDad (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Alexa

While I think Health Care is an important issue, I agree that it needs to be put on a back burner

In another thread you called it a "crisis" and it was vital for an entertainment network to show his speech.

That's why you are irrelevant. You don't know what you believe or what you want.

You just love to write long ass diatribes that go nowhere and contradict yourself.

Grow up, and come back in a few years when you have knowledge that was not spoon fed into you by the 13th grade teachers at CSM.

[MMDad (Premo)]

Originally Posted by awpitt

Interetsing chart which shows Dems preside over lower deficits while Repubs preside over higher deficits. The situation now is a result of Obama trying to solve in 18 months the problems W and the Repubs created over the last two terms.

Using your logic, those Dems had lower deficits because their Republican predecessors caused them.

How long does it take until BHO owns his errors? The "stimulus" HAD to go through or we would see 8% unemployment. Now we only dream of that, yet last week the White House said that we are right where they thought we would be. Really? If they thought that unemployment would be this high, why did they say that the stimulus would prevent it from even nearing this level?

You partisan ideologues are the same people who blamed Bush for 9/11, yet for some reason you give BHO a pass.

When does it stop? When will you be objective enough to realize that if you don't hold him responsible for his failures it is not logical to praise him for his successes (if he ever has one.)

[awpitt]

Originally Posted by MMDad

Using your logic, those Dems had lower deficits because their Republican predecessors caused them.

Nope. In case you didn't know, federal budgets are passed and approved annually. The only overlap is between Jan 20 and Oct 1 of a new President's first year because that period is the remainder of the previous President's final FY budget. During the 80's, a lot of folks liked to blame the Congress for those record breaking deficits yet the Reagan administration never, not once, sent a budget to Congress proposing a reduction in the deficit.

Originally Posted by MMDad

You partisan ideologues are the same people who blamed Bush for 9/11, yet for some reason you give BHO a pass.

Incorrect. I've never blamed Bush for 9/11 so the "partisan ideologues" you speak of are elsewhere.

[MMDad (Premo)]

Originally Posted by awpitt

Nope. In case you didn't know, federal budgets are passed and approved annually. The only overlap is between Jan 20 and Oct 1 of a new President's first year because that period is the remainder of the previous President's final FY budget.

The current year budget is only partially relevant. The economy, GDP, and taxes are far more relevant.

Raising taxes to have a lower deficit does not equal lower spending. Raising taxes hurts the economy, and it takes years to recover from that.

Don't forget: BHO and Biden came from the Senate, where they could have prevented the current situation. They didn't. Instead they were the kings of pork.

Pelosi, Hoyer, and Mikulski all point at Bush as the problem, yet they all voted for the bills that caused the problems.

[Alexa]

Originally Posted by MMDad

In another thread you called it a "crisis" and it was vital for an entertainment network to show his speech.

That's why you are irrelevant. You don't know what you believe or what you want.

You just love to write long ass diatribes that go nowhere and contradict yourself.

Grow up, and come back in a few years when you have knowledge that was not spoon fed into you by the 13th grade teachers at CSM.

If you had learned to read and comprehend, then you would have noted on that other thread that what I called crisis was the economic collapse, two wars, unprecedented deficits and spending as the crisis'. And that if anyone was concerned about those "crisis" then they would want to tune in to the man at the helm whether they support him or not and even if his speech was about an issue that people would deem as a "non crisis issue".

Looks like you are more and more irrelevant. You just love finding my posts and stamping them as "Lies" without even reading them. Are you done yet?

[Alexa]

Originally Posted by MMDad

Using your logic, those Dems had lower deficits because their Republican predecessors caused them.

How long does it take until BHO owns his errors? The "stimulus" HAD to go through or we would see 8% unemployment. Now we only dream of that, yet last week the White House said that we are right where they thought we would be. Really? If they thought that unemployment would be this high, why did they say that the stimulus would prevent it from even nearing this level?

You partisan ideologues are the same people who blamed Bush for 9/11, yet for some reason you give BHO a pass.

When does it stop? When will you be objective enough to realize that if you don't hold him responsible for his failures it is not logical to praise him for his successes (if he ever has one.)

It stops when both ideologues quit pointing the finger and blaming the whole mess on the other and own up to the fact that both had a hand in it.

Maybe once they can do that, something tangible can actually be done. Given how deep your in.....I don't see it happening and that is why the country will fail.