What is Howard Dean afraid of?

[otter]

Originally posted by dems4me
I think if Bill Clinton had stayed in office, 9-11 would have been prevented.

Please explain how?? Just like he prevented the other acts of terrorism against us???

[Ken King]

Originally posted by dems4me
I disagree V-rail. I think if Bill Clinton had stayed in office, 9-11 would have been prevented. Bush gave alot of people high ranking jobs that they had no experience in - only as a result of helping him fund his campaign or for arguing his case in the Florida elections. But we can't all be arm-chair monday morning quarterbacks. There is no way we can proove one way or the other. That's my opinion.

Enron and other corporate corruption, market manipulation, etc... had a detrimental impact on the stock market. As for the new economic growth we have had in the past few months, I think Bush and the other Republicans are the ones that put us in that hole. I think a 4 year old could have created a solution to improve the debt that was caused - the tax breaks only worsenend our deficit and not many people hired people as a result of their breaks.

There are other dictators in other countries but we are not getting involved over there and completely taking over their country -- why? because they are not oil producing countries. It was a War for Oil.

How naive can a person be? The terrorists received flight training in the USA under whose watch? They entered the USA under the passport express program with Saudi Arabia under whose watch? Who was given intelligence data on the where abouts of Osama bin Laden well before the attacks and did nothing? Who established Yemen as a refueling port for our Navy and then did nothing to protect them while they were in that port?

Someone was too busy worrying about their legacy and not the American people and their safety, any guess on who that was? The corruption on the economic side came about because no one was paying attention to what they were doing. Who was in charge when it all started (not when it peaked and something was finally done about it)?

The tax breaks did not worsen our deficit. After the tax plan went into affect we had some major expenditures in an effort to regain the security of our Nation and to recoup the damage caused by nearly a decade of foolish narcissism. The dotcom's were failing by the dozens and revenue dropped drastically resulting in it's immediate growth. People were fat, dumb, happy, and thought they were safe. 9/11 woke many of us up, but alas many it seems still have their heads buried somewhere and I don't think it's in the sand.

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by dems4me
I disagree V-rail.

And that's your right, Dams4ming.

Bush gave alot of people high ranking jobs that they had no experience in

For example?

Enron and other corporate corruption, market manipulation, etc... had a detrimental impact on the stock market.

Under whose watch?

As for the new economic growth we have had in the past few months, I think Bush and the other Republicans are the ones that put us in that hole.

If you mean to say that Bush and the other Republicans brought us out of what could have been a bad recession, I agree with you.

[SamSpade]

"I disagree V-rail. I think if Bill Clinton had stayed in office, 9-11 would have been prevented."

Based on what? The stellar job of preventing a few dozen other terrorist attacks that occurred in the 90's? The terrorists who struck on 9-11, a mere eight months after Bush took office, had been in THIS country for *many* years, and Clinton didn't stop them. I just don't follow the logic. A train wreck that took eight years to happen, and he would have *stopped* it?

"Bush gave alot of people high ranking jobs that they had no experience in"

Funny, up until now the biggest complaint was that he re-hired all of his dad's associates, who had plenty of experience. Place that in stark contrast to the MESS the Clinton White House had for its first few months, because the staff was completely inexperienced.


" - only as a result of helping him fund his campaign"

Ever hear of FOB (Friends of Bill)?


"Enron and other corporate corruption, market manipulation, etc... had a detrimental impact on the stock market."

Inconsequential. It's amazing. I read somewhere that the biggest problem liberals have is they have no concept of economics. We have an economy measured in tens of trillions. Enron's effect is miniscule, and the scandals there were largely internal. They're insignificant.

"As for the new economic growth we have had in the past few months, I think Bush and the other Republicans are the ones that put us in that hole."

Wrong. The economy began to tank about halfway into 2000, well before Bush took office and WAY before anything he did could have had any effect on it. Recessions are part of the business cycle - they ALWAYS happen. And Enron, Arthur Andersen? Getting away with that under *Clinton's* administration. They got CAUGHT under Bush. You know this, but it bears repeating.

" I think a 4 year old could have created a solution to improve the debt that was caused"

Then there goes your "too inexperienced" argument mentioned previously, huh?

" - the tax breaks only worsenend our deficit and not many people hired people as a result of their breaks. "

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to learn that you can't RAISE taxes during a recession to make up the shortfall. One guy actually TRIED that. Herbert Hoover. Ring any bells? Bad idea to raise taxes during a recession.

"There are other dictators in other countries"

You know, I *hate* this argument. It says, what you did isn't any good because of all the other things you DIDN'T do. You know, a fireman saves a child from a burning building, and the bystanders who did nothing tell him about all the burning buildings he DIDN'T rescue people from. So the hell what? We saved Iraq from one of this century's most brutal dictators. Doing NOTHING is how Hitler rose to power.

" but we are not getting involved over there and completely taking over their country -- why? because they are not oil producing countries. It was a War for Oil."

And that is *bad* because? Fidel would also love to blow the hell out of the US. But he can't. Cuba isn't sitting on a big pile of oil. So he has no ability whatsoever of building big weapons. He's no threat to anyone. When Saddam invaded Kuwait, he placed his troops along the Saudi border (who has NO military to speak of) as a prelude to invasion, and he had fought Iran for ten years. He was a threat to the world, *because* of the oil.

Tell you what, though. If you can think of a way you yourself use NO oil whatsoever, I'll think it over. But it's massively hypocritical to consume more oil than most people on this planet, and complain that we intervened because our national interests - oil - were placed in jeopardy.

By the way - during WW2, the SAME kind of complaint was made - that the purpose of the war was to make money for the automobile industry. They said it was a war for General Motors. Just to let you know there's always someone out there who'll try to frame it in those terms, however stupid it really is to claim.

Has it occurred to you that if the US really was this big bad monster - who could stop us from simply TAKING the oil? No other nation that has held the military power the US has, has ever even paused to THINK it might be wrong to just take it. And we CAN, but we don't. It's their oil.

your quite amusing samspade -- friends of Bill stand for members in AA.

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by dems4me
friends of Bill stand for members in AA.

If you don't bone up on your politics and current events, I'm not going to post with you anymore.

FOB (or Friends of Bill) is a common term for all the Clinton cronies that helped him politically or financially.

There are plenty of places to get the oil here in the united states that have stopped producing -- why? because its cheaper to get it over seas as with alot of other imports.

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by dems4me
There are plenty of places to get the oil here in the united states that have stopped producing -- why?

Because liberal environmentalists protest like crazy when it's even suggested that we drill in the US. Ever heard of ANWAR?

[SamSpade]

Originally posted by dems4me
your quite amusing samspade -- friends of Bill stand for members in AA.

(I thought it was Al-Anon, which isn't the same thing).

It also stands for "Fresh Off the Boat" - for immigrants.

I'm referring to the mass of Bill Clinton cronies, who were called FOB's back in the early Clinton years. His early years consisted of tons of people who wangled their way into the White House because they helped him out during his campaign.

[SamSpade]

Originally posted by dems4me
There are plenty of places to get the oil here in the united states that have stopped producing -- why? because its cheaper to get it over seas as with alot of other imports.

So you're saying we should expend a fortune squeezing out the last few drops out of our own land, rather than buy it cheaply abroad? I take it you never shop for bargains, yourself. This is the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard for not purchasing foreign oil ---

And as someone else has pointed out, there's ANWR. There's plenty of data to suggest that the environmental impact would be marginal, and none to suggest it would even be detrimental. The native Inuit of that area *want* it. Why aren't we doing it?