Newt and Amnesty

[PsyOps (Premo)]

Originally Posted by itsbob

If you open the borders all these problems go away..

If they can come and go as they please why would they sneak across private property, kill livestock and destroy the land when they can just walk or drive down the US/Mexico Freeway??

Originally Posted by itsbob

If you open the borders all these problems go away..

If they can come and go as they please why would they sneak across private property, kill livestock and destroy the land when they can just walk or drive down the US/Mexico Freeway??

First of all

FAIR:

The four pilots had been in the United States for extended periods, although none was a legal permanent resident. Some had received more than one temporary visa, most of which were currently valid on September 11, but at least three of them had fallen out of status and were, therefore, in the United States illegally.

Feds Issue Terror Watch For The Texas/Mexico Border | Fox News

Terrorist Caught Trying To Cross Mexican Border « A Conservative Wanderer

PJ Media » (PJM Exclusive) DOJ Memo Confirms Terrorists Have Crossed the Border

I agree, we have been doing it wrong. But completely opening the borders doesn’t solve it? That’s like saying I can’t keep foxes out of the henhouse because the door isn’t strong enough, so remove the door altogether will solve that problem. You make a stronger more efficient door. You develop methods that deter the fox from coming around in the first place.

These people don’t want to come and go as they please, they want what we have. If you completely open the borders how many of the millions that will flow in will actually bother to get documented? Are you okay with criminals fleeing from Mexican law coming in unchecked? Murderers, rapist, child molesters, drug dealers?

[JoeRider]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

First of all

FAIR:



Feds Issue Terror Watch For The Texas/Mexico Border | Fox News

Terrorist Caught Trying To Cross Mexican Border « A Conservative Wanderer

PJ Media » (PJM Exclusive) DOJ Memo Confirms Terrorists Have Crossed the Border

I agree, we have been doing it wrong. But completely opening the borders doesn’t solve it? That’s like saying I can’t keep foxes out of the henhouse because the door isn’t strong enough, so remove the door altogether will solve that problem. You make a stronger more efficient door. You develop methods that deter the fox from coming around in the first place.

These people don’t want to come and go as they please, they want what we have. If you completely open the borders how many of the millions that will flow in will actually bother to get documented? Are you okay with criminals fleeing from Mexican law coming in unchecked? Murderers, rapist, child molesters, drug dealers?

Like something that will make coming to the US hell for them. My guess is the borders are open right now. An electric dog fence might work.

[chernmax]

Originally Posted by JoeRider

Like something that will make coming to the US hell for them. My guess is the borders are open right now. An electric dog fence might work.

And free 10K gold shock collars!!!

[itsbob]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

First of all

FAIR:



Feds Issue Terror Watch For The Texas/Mexico Border | Fox News

Terrorist Caught Trying To Cross Mexican Border « A Conservative Wanderer

PJ Media » (PJM Exclusive) DOJ Memo Confirms Terrorists Have Crossed the Border

I agree, we have been doing it wrong. But completely opening the borders doesn’t solve it? That’s like saying I can’t keep foxes out of the henhouse because the door isn’t strong enough, so remove the door altogether will solve that problem. You make a stronger more efficient door. You develop methods that deter the fox from coming around in the first place.

These people don’t want to come and go as they please, they want what we have. If you completely open the borders how many of the millions that will flow in will actually bother to get documented? Are you okay with criminals fleeing from Mexican law coming in unchecked? Murderers, rapist, child molesters, drug dealers?

ALl you say is happening now.. Murderers, rapists, Child Molesters, Gang members and drug dealers come across in DROVES.. and if terrorists want to they can too. NOTHING is stopping them now. If the border is open what diffrence will there be? REALLY? It's open now, we just spend BILLIONS on it to give everyone the impression that it's secure.

BUT the fox and the hen analogy is a little overboard. First and foremost we are talking about humans, not animals.. MOST of these humans don't want what you have, or what I have; they want to provide for their humans, their families. You think they WANT to be away from home, away from their families in a country they know they aren't wanted, aren't liked? MOST of the illegals that cross our borders do it to pursue the American Dream, and MOST of them will work harder to achieve it than MOST native born Americans. They'll do ALL the crap work MOST Americans think they are too good to do, and they'll do it for a fair wage and not expect to make six figures a year with full benefits mowing yards.

Our Declaration of Independence spells out in no uncertain terms: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--

Which of these rights should we not allow, or bestow on our neighbors and allies?? If they can't provide for their children where they are, why not allow them to come here and pursue their happiness?


If all of Mexico wanted to come up we should let them.. Give them steps to take to become citizens, but don't treat them like caged animals just because they want to provide a better life for their families..

I would bet 80% of the people on this forum wouldn't have the cajones to do what they do to try to provide a better life for their families, but all you do is insult, and insinuate they are all criminals, and nothing better than animals trying to take what's ours..

[Mongo53]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

What say you 'Reagan Conservatives"?

If Reagan was here today, I imagine he would say,

Originally Posted by Notional Reagan

Where are those lying filthy Democrats, I kept up my end of the bargain, they didn't do squat, where is the immigration law reform, where is the border enforcement, where was the deportation of the half of the illegals that couldn't qualify for the program? #*^&(^@! Democrats swore if I would sign this deal for 2.5 Million Illegals, they would work enforcing the border and unscrew the immigration policy. Instead they only made it worse, and Republicans helped them? Now, instead of learning your lesson, that you can't trust Liberals, they will sand bag you in every deal, you want to grant amnesty to 13 million illegal in return for nothing? And they use my words long after I'm dead, out of context, to make it look like I would support them in in this insanity? What are you crazy?

Quite simple, if illegals can't get government assistance, can't get a job, they'll all go home where they can get those things. No deportation necessary, we just have to stop all the citizens of this country from breaking the law to help illegals get support and jobs.

[itsbob]

Originally Posted by Mongo53

If Reagan was here today, I imagine he would say,



Quite simple, if illegals can't get government assistance, can't get a job, they'll all go home where they can get those things. No deportation necessary, we just have to stop all the citizens of this country from breaking the law to help illegals get support and jobs.

BUT if they weren't illegal, and had the same jobs they do today their employers would pay taxes, as well as SSI, and the employee could get a SSN and pay taxes and into SSI..

They would add billions of dollars to the tax base.. be viable parts of the country and paying in a lot more than they take out (which they already do, but people tend to forget that part).

[Mongo53]

Originally Posted by itsbob

BUT if they weren't illegal, and had the same jobs they do today their employers would pay taxes, as well as SSI, and the employee could get a SSN and pay taxes and into SSI..

They would add billions of dollars to the tax base.. be viable parts of the country and paying in a lot more than they take out (which they already do, but people tend to forget that part).

And they could collect welfare, food stamps, and SSI and could be a bigger liability then contributor.

And some illegals do have employers pay their taxes and SSI contributions, because they get a job using a fake SSN.

That is why Reagan struck a deal to give amnesty to some of the illegals that qualified as contributors and NOT drains on the system, with the promise that we would fix the immigration system and enforce the border, so we got the people to immigrate that would be contributors and NOT drains on the system.

Of course the politicians that made that promise, totally broke it, and here we are today, with the situation far worse, after saying we would only do amnesty once, saying well we have to do it again. And the guy that said we would only do it once, and then fix the system so we would never get in this jam again, well, lets all forget that and claim he would be all for continuing to totally screw up the system, despite his saying the opposite back then.

[BOP]

Originally Posted by JoeRider

Like something that will make coming to the US hell for them. My guess is the borders are open right now. An electric dog fence might work.

I'm thinking a free-fire zone would be better.

Give our military some real time sneak and peek.

[PsyOps (Premo)]

Originally Posted by itsbob

ALl you say is happening now.. Murderers, rapists, Child Molesters, Gang members and drug dealers come across in DROVES.. and if terrorists want to they can too. NOTHING is stopping them now. If the border is open what diffrence will there be? REALLY? It's open now, we just spend BILLIONS on it to give everyone the impression that it's secure.

BUT the fox and the hen analogy is a little overboard. First and foremost we are talking about humans, not animals.. MOST of these humans don't want what you have, or what I have; they want to provide for their humans, their families. You think they WANT to be away from home, away from their families in a country they know they aren't wanted, aren't liked? MOST of the illegals that cross our borders do it to pursue the American Dream, and MOST of them will work harder to achieve it than MOST native born Americans. They'll do ALL the crap work MOST Americans think they are too good to do, and they'll do it for a fair wage and not expect to make six figures a year with full benefits mowing yards.

Our Declaration of Independence spells out in no uncertain terms: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--

Which of these rights should we not allow, or bestow on our neighbors and allies?? If they can't provide for their children where they are, why not allow them to come here and pursue their happiness?


If all of Mexico wanted to come up we should let them.. Give them steps to take to become citizens, but don't treat them like caged animals just because they want to provide a better life for their families..

We agree there is a problem. We agree what we are doing isn’t working. We agree billions are being wasted on things that aren’t working. So throwing in the towel and making innocent Americans deal with it solves it?

Since you agree they are already coming in in droves, why would you want that to continue, and on an even larger scale with no monitoring of who is coming in? Under your plan, no one would be monitoring them. How does this solve the problem?

Having a process that controls how people come into this country doesn’t make anyone less equal. It doesn’t mean anyone’s rights are being violated. But if setting up a controlled process prevents a mass murderer from coming in, that’s money well-spent as far as I’m concerned. It just means that since you aren’t American, and since you aren’t documented, we need to know who you are coming in and document you; you must follow our laws for entering in to this country. And you must verify who you are. We already perform a census of documented legal Americans, so they know who you are and you can vouch for your legitimate purpose for being in this country. Why do we expect less from those that aim to immigrate here?

Originally Posted by itsbob

I would bet 80% of the people on this forum wouldn't have the cajones to do what they do to try to provide a better life for their families, but all you do is insult, and insinuate they are all criminals, and nothing better than animals trying to take what's ours..

That’s not fair and you know that’s not what I’m saying. I would like to think you’ve read enough of my posts to know I hold no ill-will toward anyone. I want people to come here. I want them to have the same opportunities I have had. I just don’t think opening the flood-gates is the answer to our immigrations problem. Perhaps my fox/henhouse analogy was a bad one; but you should at least get the point that a country like the US can’t just open wide our borders and not expect there to massive problems. We already see the problems that you have admitted to; yet you propose to exacerbate what you already admit is a problem.

[PsyOps (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Mongo53

If Reagan was here today, I imagine he would say,

Quite simple, if illegals can't get government assistance, can't get a job, they'll all go home where they can get those things. No deportation necessary, we just have to stop all the citizens of this country from breaking the law to help illegals get support and jobs.

You have to know this is coming... Republicans failed Reagan too. We are here 25 years later still talking about when both parties could have done something about it.

But I agree, part of the plan has to be to disincentivize people wanting to come here illegally.