Challenge: Social Security

[FromTexas]

Keep it civil. I just want, without linking up only to other peoples arguements unless you are linking to legitimate sources to show your source for hard data, folks to do some math.

Privatization of social security is considered evil by some and government run is evil by others. Here are the things you must demonstrate:

(1) If all for total privatization and no government insurance for any class of wealth, please demonstrate math at both ends of the spectrum - utilizing current social security rules [minus the 2% tax holiday because we know that isn't going on forever] (amount input into social security, payout, etc...)

(2) If for total government insurance to continue, please show your math and benefit (per above) and where you draw conclusions from.

(3) If for a mixed philosophy, please show your math and benefit (per above) and where you draw your conclusions from.

(4) You may also add a safety valve - we all know social security will go broke at its current payouts without changes. If you change any of the social security rules and you advocate an above position, you must show your math for how your system will effect the above.

I am sure this thread will see deafening silence. Everyone is willing to jab on side or the other but not actually think to demonstrate a solution - just link away.

To assist, here are some helpful links and info.

First off - social security is a 12.4% annual contribution of salary between employers and employees shares (6.2% each). You contribute no matter your income level. The only exemptions are particular government worker pension plans that contribute fully to those plans vice social security.

Annual contribution limits link Contribution and Benefit Base

Some other data sources on social security Social Security - Just Facts

You can find how to estimate retirement payout at Retirement Estimator

I have already done some math. I will post mine if this thread takes on any life.

By the way, if your assumption is the government is going to fall apart or the economy is going to heck and hand basket and we are going broke regardless, it doesn't matter if you pick privatization or government run... so you might as well not bother doing the math.

The idea of this thread is to have a fair discussion between those liberals advocating privatization will decimate old peoples incomes and those conservatives that advocate government is putting it into a hole and private can do better. Also, if you are for a change, remember you will need some sort of caveat for those who have already contributed and close to retirement who can not change their course now - if you disagree with that, you can argue why.

The reason I propose this is like in school, when you solve a problem yourself, you can see the answer more because you can see the math work. Not just argue a position.

[vraiblonde]

Who the hell are you talking to? People who are against privatization of SS cannot tell you why without quoting some expert on the subject, like Bill Maher or Kim Kardashian.

[FromTexas]

Originally Posted by vraiblonde

Who the hell are you talking to? People who are against privatization of SS cannot tell you why without quoting some expert on the subject, like Bill Maher or Kim Kardashian.

Have you shown your numbers to prove your way is better.

[FromTexas]

Some hints:

Social security only replaces 40% of an average wage - as high as 77% at the lower end of the spectrum if someone works their whole life (20-67).

[Gilligan (Premo)]

I want all entitlement programs to remain as they are without any changes whatsoever.

I want the current government spending to stay the same or increase (I know...that was redundant).

Many of my supplies have a shelf life..and I'd just as soon replace as few of them as possible. Lets just get this over with.

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by FromTexas

Have you shown your numbers to prove your way is better.

I will show you two numbers:

US debt: $16,000,000,000,000
Vraiblonde's debt: $240,000 (what I still owe on my house)

[FromTexas]

Originally Posted by vraiblonde

I will show you two numbers:

US debt: $16,000,000,000,000
Vraiblonde's debt: $240,000 (what I still owe on my house)

Of the U.S. debet each citizen owes just under $51k. That is way less than your house.

[BOP]

Originally Posted by FromTexas

Have you shown your numbers to prove your way is better.

Are you trying to see what other people think so you can draw your own conclusions?

[FromTexas]

Originally Posted by BOP

Are you trying to see what other people think so you can draw your own conclusions?

Are you trying not to drawn your own conclusions to see what other people think?

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by FromTexas

Are you trying not to drawn your own conclusions to see what other people think?

Go back to your very first sentence,I agree with you.Face it people don't want Privatization of social security becuase 1) many don't understand investing,2)with people like Bernie Madoff ...you can't trust Wall Street even if you do know how to invest.