Report targets military pay,benefits for debt-deal

[GURPS (Premo)]

the Spanish / American war was brought about by yellow journalism - aka lies in newspapers - the Maine blew up - most likely - because of a fire in the Coal bins, next to the magazine - no mine no attack, but Hearst whipped up the country


WW I begat WW II .......... was it necessary to fight in WW I - I do not think so ... the war was almost over when we got there ... some blame it on bankers and arms industries ....


Korea, Vietnam are questionable ....... if one believes Revolutionary Marxism was going to sweep the Globe without intervention, then something needed to be done about countering it - directly or indirectly [supporting some 3rd rate oppressor - because he opposed Communism]

Iraq - Saddam lied, the world bought the lie - he died [ we should have kicked ass, and left - let them sort themselves out, things could have not ended any worse]
A-stan - Jihidi's hiding in cave thinking they were safe to led further attacks against the US [ we should have kicked ass, and left ]





Freedom is best spread by being an example ....

[cwo_ghwebb]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

Who said the "entitlement class" won't? I most certainly expect them to. Across the board means just that -- defense, education, national parks, FBI, EPA, housing assistance, etc and so forth and so on -- you know, ACROSS THE BOARD.

With the current deal on the table, DoD takes 50% of the cuts. The DoD isn't 50% of the spending. Sure seems fair to liberals, I guess.

[MMM_donuts]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

This is abjectly false. There is a screening process and testing that takes place. Educationally the bar may be a bit lower for Marines vs. Air Force, but there are still standards that have to be met in order for someone to be accepted.



Can you name a job, of any minimal level of technical requirements, where someone goes in, is able to jump in without any form of training? Some jobs more or less than others, but if you get hired by Safeway you don’t just get hired and off you go. They have to train you on what your job is. The military requires very specialized training for each career field to make sure each person is doing their job in concert with everyone else in the military.

I can’t speak for the other branches, but the Air Force will provide you with your first set of uniforms. After that you have to pay for them. And they are expensive. Boots alone can cost upwards of $150. The ABU set can cost around $100, and that’s before you get all the crap sewn on them (stripes, name tags, patches, names, etc…) to meet uniform standards. Blues are nearly as costly and require tailoring as well as all the other bells and whistles (stripes, ribbons, badges, name tags, etc…). If there wasn’t BAS and BAH, nearly every enlisted person in the military would earn poverty wages. Base pay, routinely is a poverty-level wage. The lower ranks can add up to less than what someone would get in a minimum wage job. Like I mentioned before, some qualify for food stamps. All this for defending your right to freely question these things.



This is probably your most ignorant comment. Instead of thinking this way, perhaps you ought to be thankful some folks are willing to ‘ask for it’. If no one did where would your liberties be? What our constitution ‘asks for’ is to provide for a national defense. How would you prefer this be done? Force people through a draft or have people that are willing to ‘ask for it’?



Is this what you think our military thinks? We are owed something? Again, perhaps you’d prefer the draft as opposed to volunteers. Read you damn constitution and consider what you are OWED by being an American, and who it is that protects what you are OWED.



You seem to have this view that people joining the military are mindless robots and less than human. If you had spent any time in the military you’d know that FAMILY is very important. Aside from the fact that we are a community/family in-and-of-itself, we try to live as much of an ordinary life as possible. We don’t stop living like everyone else just because we have a less stable course.

You seem to have forgotten what it is, who it is, that secures your liberties. We need people that are willing to risk their lives for that cause. That single cause keeps everything else rolling freely. And the people (military, police, fire fighters, etc…) that keep you safe are severely underpaid and undercompensated for that they do. We should do MORE for them, not less.

Let me just start off by telling you that I am a Marine Corps veteran (enlisted) with multiple combat tours, I continue to work with the military, and many of my friends are involved in the military.

Yes there are standards but there aren't very tough standards, much of which can easily be waived - education, medical, criminal. Yeah, Safeway trains you to do your job - that's why they pay you as low as they do. Jobs requiring a unique/uncommon skill set tend to pay higher than jobs that anyone can be trained to do. That's why NFL players get paid so much more than a teacher or a cop - they are amongst a tiny group of a few hundred people in the world that can do what they do and entertain so many. If most people can do it then it's not that unique.

The Marine Corps pays a yearly clothing allowance to cover uniform items. I know for a fact that the Air Force does, too. When I was deployed to Africa, the Air Force members got extra clothing allowances and food allowances because they had packed for a uniformed deployment but it changed to one in which they required civilian attire. They got extra food allowances because they food was prepared in a way that was deemed unfit for the Air Force so they were encouraged to purchase their own. We Marines rewore our dirty basic civilian attire and either ate the food or MRE's. AND this was in a tax free zone while receiving hazardous duty pay.

And it's not fair to say that lower enlisted get paid poverty wages - they have no bills - no rent, no food costs, no health care costs, no education costs, only elective costs such as vehicles or entertainment. They even get paid more as the occupational hazards increase - flying, combat. In my experience, the only people that ever had problems with the pay were the ones that a bunch of children to support - those are the ones that qualify for child support - the ones popping out babies like welfare moms - yeah, they exist in the military, too.

I am very thankful for our service members. I am extraordinarily aware of the sacrifices that are made. I would totally support increases in their pay and benefits. But the current benefits are not as bad as you are making them out to be and, in my opinion, there is room for better budgeting and less complaining about what service members are entitled to. Not all service members have that mentality, but some do.

I don't understand your draft comments, they make no sense to me. Why would I support bringing back a draft? As long as the deals are this sweet, people will continue to flock to the military just as they currently are - and they ARE fighting to get in and stay in the military despite all the conflicts, death, and all this horrible lack of benefits you would like us to believe they are forced to endure. Less people do it for the honor of serving their country and more for the benefits than people would like to believe. THAT's why they are willing to sacrifice. Don't get me wrong, many people do it for the honor and solely for the honor, just not all of them....

Again, this lifestyle is a choice. I did it so STFU and stop trying to put words in my mouth about what I must think or how I must not understand. What part of sacrafice don't you understand? You DO stop living like everyone else when you choose the military. For whatever reason you chose to do it - you still chose it. If you want to get paid more for your troubles then take on the extra responsibilty and get promoted. The opportunity for more compensation is there if you are willing to work for it.

Disclaimer for all - Please do not mistake my position - I'm not advocating for any serice member (past, present, or future) to have anything taken away from them. I am defending my position that service members are compensated well. I am also defending my position of disgust that some are so selfish that they feel the need to continue to ask for more, more, more, more, more at the expense of others.

[MMM_donuts]

I also wanted to add, because the previous post sounds much more cold hearted than I actually am, some service members find themselves in places of financial difficulty through little or no fault of their own, to which there are many helpful organizations such as the Navy-Marine Corps Relief Society, which we all contributed money to, that will aid them through their tough times.

[PsyOps (Premo)]

Originally Posted by cwo_ghwebb

With the current deal on the table, DoD takes 50% of the cuts. The DoD isn't 50% of the spending. Sure seems fair to liberals, I guess.

And that's an excellent point. According to this site, the defense budget is only 24%. Entitlements are at 58%.

Bill O'Reilly had a very good 'Talking Points' last night. He said:

a little more than 20 years ago in 1991 the federal government spent nine percent of the budget on means tested entitlements; things like food stamps, housing and welfare.

Now the number is 16 percent, almost double. In '91, individuals in 41 million American households were receiving some kind of entitlement outside of Medicare and Social Security. Now the number is an astounding 107 million Americans, an increase of 161 percent...

Even though the population has increased just 24 percent; 20 years ago, 23 million people received food stamps. Now 45 million people do... a record. In '92, about three and a half million Americans were receiving federal disability payments. This month, nearly nine million Americans are getting federal payments...

Even though the population has increased just 24 percent; 20 years ago, 23 million people received food stamps. Now 45 million people do... a record. In '92, about three and a half million Americans were receiving federal disability payments. This month, nearly nine million Americans are getting federal payments.

The problem is not with defense spending. We have an ever-increasing entitlement society that is sinking the federal ship.

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

There is not even a remote comparison to someone that is NOT working to receive federal dollars to someone that is defending our country on the federal dime.

Not a comparison in the way you're looking at it, but there certainly is in that both utilize tax money even if they do come from opposite ends of the spectrum. You don't have to like it, but it is what it is.

Originally Posted by PsyOps

If liberals have their way, they wont. And they feel they won the election and have that mandate.

IF...your fears ad nauseum.

Originally Posted by cwo_ghwebb

With the current deal on the table, DoD takes 50% of the cuts. The DoD isn't 50% of the spending. Sure seems fair to liberals, I guess.

Originally Posted by PsyOps

And that's an excellent point. According to this site, the defense budget is only 24%. Entitlements are at 58%.

So which is it? 50%? 24%? You do realize that some of those entitlements include VETERANS BENEFITS AND THE GI BILL, don't you?

Originally Posted by PsyOps

Bill O'Reilly had a very good 'Talking Points' last night. He said:
The problem is not with defense spending. We have an ever-increasing entitlement society that is sinking the federal ship.

Read above. You're part of that entitlement society that is sinking our ship.

The problem is BOTH defense spending AND entitlements. What is it about ACROSS THE BOARD you do not understand?

Look, I've said what I've had to say and feel I've expressed my thoughts appropriately. I'm not much into repeating myself these days, so y'all feel free to have the last word.

[PsyOps (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

Not a comparison in the way you're looking at it, but there certainly is in that both utilize tax money even if they do come from opposite ends of the spectrum. You don't have to like it, but it is what it is.

In order to discuss the two side-by-side, there has to be a relationship in terms of how we deal them. Military actually produce something for the taxes; welfare and food stamp recipients do not. This has nothing to with whether I like it or not; it has to do with productivity for the tax dollar; and it has to do with the inequitable expansion of one vs. the other. As I pointed out with the O’Reilly talking points, those receiving federal assistance has increased significantly with nothing produced in return.

Originally Posted by Radiant1

IF...your fears ad nauseum.

Liberal democrats have a long history of refusing to cut ‘entitlements’ while always very willing to cut defense spending as a first action to deal with deficits. This at the expense of national security.

Originally Posted by Radiant1

So which is it? 50%? 24%? You do realize that some of those entitlements include VETERANS BENEFITS AND THE GI BILL, don't you?

You’ll have to show that to me. Of the $3.5 trillion budget the VA accounts for about $62 billion of that. That's about .012% of spending. The GI Bill is about $4.4 billion; not even worth doing the math there.

Originally Posted by Radiant1

Read above. You're part of that entitlement society that is sinking our ship.

You have no problem insulting those that spent 20 years of their life actually DOING something for this country on levels most people can’t or refuse to comprehend. I EARNED my retirement in the same way someone that worked for GE earned theirs by working for them for 20 years. Are THEY part of an entitlement society? Because I get my retirement check from the government means that’s an entitlement in the same way as someone that gets a welfare check? Your whole view of this entitlement mentality is pretty distorted.

Originally Posted by Radiant1

The problem is BOTH defense spending AND entitlements. What is it about ACROSS THE BOARD you do not understand?

You’re completely missing the point. It’s about how liberals will demonize anyone that suggests cutting ‘entitlements’ as racist or bigoted. It’s about liberals first line of action on these matters is to default to cutting defense while ignoring the increasing spending problems with welfare and food stamps, and suggesting we should pay for someone’s abortion or birth control. If I even believed liberals were interested in a FAIR across-the-board reduction in spending (fair as in an equitable percentages based on budgetary differences) then I would agree with this. But when you’re talking about making 50% of the cuts in defense when defense only takes up 24% of the overall budget, that’s not even remotely fair or smart.

Originally Posted by Radiant1

Look, I've said what I've had to say and feel I've expressed my thoughts appropriately. I'm not much into repeating myself these days, so y'all feel free to have the last word.

Well, I suggest you not repeat yourself. I certainly don’t want you to exert more energy than necessary.

[PsyOps (Premo)]

Originally Posted by MMM_donuts

I did it so STFU and stop trying to put words in my mouth about what I must think or how I must not understand. What part of sacrafice don't you understand? You DO stop living like everyone else when you choose the military. For whatever reason you chose to do it - you still chose it. If you want to get paid more for your troubles then take on the extra responsibilty and get promoted. The opportunity for more compensation is there if you are willing to work for it.

I had a full reply to your post until I got to this and you just made it not worth it. I served 20 years to listen your crap? You might have served but you reek of John Kerry.

[MMM_donuts]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

I had a full reply to your post until I got to this and you just made it not worth it. I served 20 years to listen your crap? You might have served but you reek of John Kerry.

Yeah, ok sure.

Crap? Or can your sweeping generalizations not support your argument?

I can't believe that people like me are taking responsibility for their choices and you want to give me a hard time for it and then in the same breath you want to condemn others as unworthy for not choosing to deal with the consequences of their decision making. No wonder my generation has entitlement issues.

[PsyOps (Premo)]

Originally Posted by MMM_donuts

Yeah, ok sure.

Crap? Or can your sweeping generalizations not support your argument?

I can't believe that people like me are taking responsibility for their choices and you want to give me a hard time for it and then in the same breath you want to condemn others as unworthy for not choosing to deal with the consequences of their decision making. No wonder my generation has entitlement issues.

Can you explain to me how supporting cutting military benefits and salaries at a disproportionate rate than that of 'entitlements' as compared to federal budgeting equates to taking responsibility for your choices? I’m lost as to what one has to do with the other.