It's the Culture, Stupid!

[BOP]

Why did Romney lose the presidential election? It's a question pundits far and wide, including Southern Maryland, are dissecting in every possible way. He ran a clean campaign (which may be a contributing factor), he talked about the economy, foreign policy, and all the rest of the issues that are important to people who care about such things.

I tend to parse it in the following terms: given Obama's history, associations, lack of anything like real-world experience doing anything other than getting high, as well as his obvious plans for this country and its future, how could anyone be so STUPID as to vote for him!?

I think Rush has the answer. Ignore the global warming point - that's not the focus of this, or his argument. I've highlighted what the crux of the matter is:

As you know, I'm a big technophile, and I read every tech blog there is, particularly those related to Apple. And all of these people contributing and writing and posting these blogs are under 30. And they live in a different world than I do and they live in a different world than I grew up in. The things that they just assume are true, like there is no doubt whatsoever that we are destroying the planet with global warming, no doubt. They can't even conceive of what you and I both know to be the truth, and that is, the whole global warming thing is a hoax. They do not even think it's a political issue. They do not realize that everything they believe in has been totally corrupted by politics.

Further:
It's what they've been exposed to from as early on in their lives as their brains were capable of learning anything. And that happens to be the kind of thinking that populates the entertainment culture and so forth. I really think that the solution to our problems are not really political. I think conservatives are seen by young people and the left and the pop culture the way they are not because of what these people have been taught about conservatism. It's purely cultural. They don't know ideology.

The people who voted for Obama accept certain things as fact, without question. When most of us were in school, especially secondary and post secondary, we were taught how to think, not what to think. The greatest irony to me is that the people who are teaching our children and young people came out of a culture that purported to "question everything," to always "question authority." Those were buzz-wordy catch phrases of the '60s, for those of you who weren't around at the time.

And yet, what those counter-cultural revolutionaries (Obama's contemporaries and mentors) taught the next generation, and what the next generation has taught this generation is something entirely different. It looks nothing like the supposed free thinking that was espoused in the late '50s and '60s. It was indoctrination of "everything you know is wrong" kind of thing. In other words, only we have the truth; everything the establishment says or does, or stands for, is not only wrong, but evil. Counter-productive to everything that is good, that is.

The Long Game to Recapture the Country - The Rush Limbaugh Show

[philibusters]

It sounds good, but I hear liberals say the exact same things about conservatives word for word. Liberals tend to say conservatives don't know how to think, they only know what they are supposed to think. They may out that conservatives refuse to believe in global warming despite the most knowledgable persons on the subject, the climate scientists, in general accepting global warming.

I don't believe there is enough evidence to establish global warming myself. However, my point is most conservatives deny global warming without understanding the evidence, and most liberals accept global warming without understanding the evidence. There is no difference in my mind. However, this does remind of a facebook post on made on global warming that I think I'll turn into a new thread.

[aps45819]

If global warming didn't exist, southern Maryland would be under 50 feet of ice.


I don't think man is responsible for the climate changing

[BOP]

Originally Posted by philibusters

It sounds good, but I hear liberals say the exact same things about conservatives word for word. Liberals tend to say conservatives don't know how to think, they only know what they are supposed to think. They may out that conservatives refuse to believe in global warming despite the most knowledgable persons on the subject, the climate scientists, in general accepting global warming.

I don't believe there is enough evidence to establish global warming myself. However, my point is most conservatives deny global warming without understanding the evidence, and most liberals accept global warming without understanding the evidence. There is no difference in my mind. However, this does remind of a facebook post on made on global warming that I think I'll turn into a new thread.

I appreciate what you're saying about both sides, and tend to lean toward agreement.

But again, don't get hung up about just global warming. Rush's point is that it's a cultural mindset regarding a whole array of topics. They range (in no particular order) from global warming, to capitalism, to conservatives to war, to everything else.

I'm not saying conservatives can't be just as intractable in their mindsets, but it is a condition most often seen on the left. On the right, not so much.

[BOP]

A more concise version of my original post.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

It's the Culture, Stupid!

It's interesting observing folks running around trying to come up with all sorts of post election diagnosis and grand theories yet, never, in my view, looking objectively at what is actually wrong. It's pretty simple to see what happened, to me, if we just look at it for what it is.

If man made global warming is a farce, and it is, how come we, the GOP, can't win that argument in the arena of ideas? We blame the media but, we never come to grips with our own role in it.

Pick an issue. Immigration, the wars, government spending and growth. Entitlements. Wall Street. Health care. In every single one, the GOP has played at least a supporting role and, frankly, most of the time, a leading role in going the route of Big Government. Rush says young people are brainwashed. I say they simply observe and do not see any distinguishable difference. People who have done poorly under Obama voted for him again not because they are happy doing poorly but because they simply didn't see a clear, simple, credible argument from Romney that he would be, clearly, better.

I've asked this, in simple terms, time and again;

Repeal Obamacare! Great. Then what? It was a mess before. Why would anyone expect that to be a winning campaign? No one saw great service, high quality and low cost before Obama and he came along and ruined it. They did see a nightmare of costs and indifferent service that scares the hell out of most people as to what COULD happen; financial ruin. No one made up stories about insurance costing $1,000 or more a month. It did cost that. Before Obamacare.

We, on the right, freaked out over the idea of government run healthcare like it was some new, horrible menace when, in fact, too much government has long been the core problem and we, with Med Part D, exasperated the problem, exponentially, when we had the chance to fix it.

On top of that, we send the FATHER of Obamacare to kill it? At no time did Mitt Romney make crystal clear that the major problem with health care in terms of quality and service and cost, is too much government. At no time did he make perfectly clear that he would bring that Magic Elixir of the right, market forces, to bear to fix the problem, why it would work and how it would work.

Issue after issue, the GOP hasn't been able to make the case that we are the solution because we are at the very least part of the problem. We like our government run health care. Ours. Not 'their' version of it.

Under 30's don't see a difference because there is none. Not because of brainwashing or the culture. FOX News never gets so big if ABC, NBC and CBS had been doing good, honest reporting all those years. Those three created a demand for impartial, honest journalism. If you accept FOX it as biased as the rest only the other way, then, you admit the problem to begin with; the one sided bias that existed before them.

So it is with the culture. John Stewart can't sit there and make fun of the hypocrisy and absurdity of the Bush years absent the absurdity and hypocrisy of the Bush years. Again, if we say Stewart is biased too far one way, and he is, we, again, come to grips with reality. Stewart can't make the GOP do what it's done.

Rush Limbaugh is an amazing person and, to me, a great America for a lot of reasons. He, like FOX, proves the depth of left wing bias in the media and pop culture and, to be sure, it is great to hear him fight fire with fire. He often says that sunlight, the truth, facts, are the best weapon against liberalism. However, that knife cuts both ways and the simple truth of the matter is that, on issue after issue, it should come as no surprise that young people don't see much, if any, reason to support the GOP if, on the one hand, we claim we are better to lead because less government and more freedom are better because of this and this and this and we support those ideas and reasons...when, in fact, when we have the power to do so, we don't. We are the Party of Med D, of wasteful wars, of the Patriot Act, of killer drones, of $150 oil, of TARP and auto bailouts and run away illegal immigration. We supported Fanny and Freddy when we could have killed them or, at least fixed them. We did NOT. On all those issues we didn't walk our talk.

To then talk about the rejection of Mitt Romney, the Decent Man, being allllll about the media and alllll about bias and cultural decay is to, again, claim we on the right are something we simply are not. We may claim to be but, in practice, we're not. That's why this whole Les Evil thing is so dumb. If there was a case to be made that it helped, at all, that would be at least something. Rush says this time and again; every time conservative policies are followed, they work. Well, if we ain't gonna go that route when we can, whose fault is that? The media? The culture? Then, I get right back to Les. Nothing stopped us in 2000-2004 but ourselves.

It is often said that getting your own house in order first is a great way to start. Rush can make a compelling argument on issue after issue for conservatism. He can't however, readily make the argument that we practice what we preach. To make the argument at election time "But, THIS time we mean it!" sounds just like what it is to a young persons ears. If we have any problem of culture, it is our own culture of saying one thing and then, on the big issues, where it matters most, when we have the chance and the power, doing that which we claim is so awful.

[BigBlue]

Originally Posted by BOP

Why did Romney lose the presidential election? It's a question pundits far and wide, including Southern Maryland, are dissecting in every possible way. He ran a clean campaign (which may be a contributing factor)

I tend to parse it in the following terms: given Obama's history, associations, lack of anything like real-world experience doing anything other than getting high, as well as his obvious plans for this country and its future, how could anyone be so STUPID as to vote for him!?

I think Rush has the answer. ]

lol,yes Rush has the answer.This mind set is why the GOP will never win another national election unless they change.

[SamSpade]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

Rush says this time and again; every time conservative policies are followed, they work. Well, if we ain't gonna go that route when we can, whose fault is that? The media? The culture? Then, I get right back to Les. Nothing stopped us in 2000-2004 but ourselves.

The problem I think does lie in the culture, because there was a time when you could sell conservative ideas, even when they were proposed by Democrats ("end welfare as we know it" "the day of big government is over").

No more. Obama has successfully trod the minefield by doing exactly as Romney declared with so much political incorrectness - make it all about what different constituencies will GET from government, and make his opponents the ones who will take it away.

I remember a time when it was an awful thing to have to take things from the government. The idea of going on welfare was like moving back in with Mom and Dad. It was admitting failure. We now have a President who - read his speeches - believes the job of government is to deliver benefits to people - not to protect them.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by SamSpade

The problem I think does lie in the culture, because there was a time when you could sell conservative ideas, even when they were proposed by Democrats ("end welfare as we know it" "the day of big government is over").

No more. Obama has successfully trod the minefield by doing exactly as Romney declared with so much political incorrectness - make it all about what different constituencies will GET from government, and make his opponents the ones who will take it away.

I remember a time when it was an awful thing to have to take things from the government. The idea of going on welfare was like moving back in with Mom and Dad. It was admitting failure. We now have a President who - read his speeches - believes the job of government is to deliver benefits to people - not to protect them.

If it's the culture, which it is not, then we should all just quit because you can't over come culture. The GOP is going through denial and excuse making because we don't want to come to grips with the problem being us.

The only minefield Obama over came was the weakness of the GOP argument against continuing, on going 'big gummint'. Mitt was making the argument for the GOP's big government constituencies; big medicine, big oil, the military/industrial complex and Wall street.

When given the choice between two big government paths, people tend to choose the original.

[SamSpade]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

If it's the culture, which it is not, then we should all just quit because you can't over come culture. The GOP is going through denial and excuse making because we don't want to come to grips with the problem being us.

I watched O'Reilly early this morning, and while he was being a bit obtuse - he was making a reasonable argument, and his guests wouldn't get on board - it was sensible.

His argument was that certain constituencies *OVERWHELMINGLY* voted Obama, and the only argument propped against it was that Mitt was unable to convince those groups that he was on their side, that he cared about them and what they wanted. O'Reilly tried to make the case of - well, what does on your side MEAN?

I don't think a Ronald Reagan COULD be elected today, just as I don't think a Jack Kennedy could be nominated as a Democrat, today. I do not know a single person in any of Obama's named constituencies who EVER had the intent of voting Romney - or Republican.

You want to make the case that it has to do with Republicans not holding true to their conservative roots. As Vrai observes, you give voters WAAAAAAAY too much credit. Most voters couldn't tell you a tenth of the reasons you find fault with the GOP. They just think they're the rich white guy's party, and that they won't do nothing on their behalf.

I have a rather smart niece who voted against Romney because she's more or less on board with OWS - the whole 99% stuff. I have another who is in all likelihood married to an illegal immigrant, and declared that she would not vote for a man who might deport her husband. And the women in my office pretty much voted for him, because of his race. You 100% could never hope to engage ANY of them in the myriad reasons you cite - the mass of voters don't think that deeply.

I suppose you disagree, but I think Romney was the best candidate the GOP put up since Reagan, including both Bushes. He couldn't beat one of the worst records I've seen in my lifetime, because the throngs of persons who voted for Obama were never going to vote Republican, no how, no way.