Demand a Plan....as an American!

[kwillia]

Originally Posted by bresamil

I'm kind of split on this. I've known children who hurt other children and animals and some of them went on to be violent adults, but others didn't. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the collateral damage.

So you vote that we wait until the do the deed... that is exactly where we are today.

[Gilligan (Premo)]

Originally Posted by bresamil

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the collateral damage.

That. And who would possess that kind of power?...it seems to me that the potential for error and misuse of it is far greater than it already is when dealing with the more "cut n dry" aspect of convicted criminals. We can't even get that part right so I cringe at the thought of putting some grand system in place that is intended to "weed out" the mental defectives and put them away.

Heck..I could see myself getting caught up in that kind of social dragnet. Accidentally...of course.

[bresamil]

Originally Posted by kwillia

So you vote that we wait until the do the deed... that is exactly where we are today.

I vote that criminals are executed upon conviction of their first violent crime, thereby eliminating repeat offenders and overcrowding in prisons.

[kwillia]

Originally Posted by Gilligan

That. And who would possess that kind of power?...it seems to me that the potential for error and misuse of it is far greater than it already is when dealing with the more "cut n dry" aspect of convicted criminals. We can't even get that part right so I cringe at the thought of putting some grand system in place that is intended to "weed out" the mental defectives and put them away.

Heck..I could see myself getting caught up in that kind of social dragnet. Accidentally...of course.

So you are agreeing that since we don't want to deal with the mentaly ill we need to remove all the guns that way they can't get their hands on them... we can't have it both ways.

[kwillia]

Keep in mind this thread is asking us to "demand a plan". We have two factors in many cases... mentally ill people who went off the deep end bringing harm to others utilizing guns. And then for all the other cases, mentally ill people who went off the deep end bringing harm to others without guns. Getting rid of the guns would eliminate one of the factors, but it sure does nothing at all about the one common factor in all cases. Nothing.

[BOP]

Originally Posted by Gilligan

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/12...t-record-high/

It's a good thing Obama isn't on commission...although, when you think about it, he acts like he is.

[Gilligan (Premo)]

Originally Posted by kwillia

So you are agreeing that since we don't want to deal with the mentaly ill we need to remove all the guns that way they can't get their hands on them...

I agreed to that??? Where?

Is there any indication anywhere..even the slightest tiniest one...that Lanza would have been "detected" in your proposed mental fitness dragnet and thrown in the hole for the rest of his natural life?

The answer is, of course: A resounding No. That's the problem with this whole debate every time it comes around. So many people simply want "something done about it"..without the slightest regard for a rational evaluation of what "Something" might be that actually, measurable, even detectably, affects "it".


I like statistics and know how to use them; so I think that the only answer is clearly that we need a LOT more guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens and no new laws. Why?..you ask. As so clearly proven in California, a tremendous surge in gun ownership has corresponded with a 30% decrease in deaths by gunshot.

30%!!

Now of course I just misused statistics; there is nothing I've seen that validates the causal relationship I just proposed above. However...the facts are what they are and are far more powerfull than all the claims being made by silly persons that some "social magic" will occur after assault rifles are banned.

[Gilligan (Premo)]

Here ya go...a man with a plan that I can get behind.

I Like Guns - Steve Lee - YouTube

[Chris0nllyn]

Interesting....



Stossel Exposes Myth: Gun Control Laws Reduce Crime - YouTube

[MMDad]

Originally Posted by kwillia

How about we don't wait until they become criminals... we often times know who the nut cases are long before they do the dasterdly deed. We need to be allowed to lock up the mentally ill that families have identified as being a danger. It isn't pleasant to think about, but it is necessary.

Doesn't stop the person whose family doesn't identify. Mental illness can also be progressive - you often don't know how bad they are until it's too late.

Obviously, taking guns out of the hands of law abiding, mentally healthy people isn't the answer, but it's not as easy as locking people up before they offend.