Now for the truth...

[PsyOps (Premo)]

Originally Posted by tommyjo

You know you have no leg to stand on. As usual, your points make no sense and can't be backed up.

Now, after being shown that your position is silly, your make the statement that more than 51% of our entire military joined since the payroll tax was implemented in 2010?

That is of course assuming that you meant to type in 6.2% and not 4.2%. Because the 4.2% rate ended on January 1, 2013. If, according to your statement the "majority or our military haven't been in long enough to have experienced the 4.2% rate it WAS at", then your position is that more than 50% of our military didn't go on payroll until AFTER Jan 1 2013.

As Tilted said, the expiration of the payroll tax holiday was widely communicated across all media spectrums prior to and after the deal was struck. If you weren't aware of it, then that's your own fault.

Yes, it was a typo. I meant 6.2%. So knowing you know I meant that, you had no reason to go on with your latter screed.

But if any of your dismissal had any validity, the military wouldn’t find it necessary to send out an email to every military person warning them their paychecks are going to be changed. And that’s not even the point… I gave you videos of Obama stating he wasn’t going to touch taxes on the middle class. That turned out to be a lie. Now I know – you being a big Obama supporter – you’re okay with that; you’re okay with the middle class taxes going up; you’re okay with this president lying to us. And, as I tried to point out, Obamacare is also nothing but one big tax on EVERY American, as judged by the SCOTUS. Everyone's taxes are going up despite what this president promised and the ones that do the most for this country, the ones that get paid the least to do so, are going to be impacted all due to politicians that are unable to tell us the truth.

[thatguy]

Wirelessly posted

Originally Posted by PsyOps

Yes, it was a typo. I meant 6.2%. So knowing you know I meant that, you had no reason to go on with your latter screed.

But if any of your dismissal had any validity, the military wouldn’t find it necessary to send out an email to every military person warning them their paychecks are going to be changed. And that’s not even the point… I gave you videos of Obama stating he wasn’t going to touch taxes on the middle class. That turned out to be a lie. Now I know – you being a big Obama supporter – you’re okay with that; you’re okay with the middle class taxes going up; you’re okay with this president lying to us. And, as I tried to point out, Obamacare is also nothing but one big tax on EVERY American, as judged by the SCOTUS. Everyone's taxes are going up despite what this president promised and the ones that do the most for this country, the ones that get paid the least to do so, are going to be impacted all due to politicians that are unable to tell us the truth.

Get over your hatred for Obama and listen for a change. Tilted very politely explained the error of your "logic". On top of his clear reasoning is the fact that Obama was pushing for the payroll tax holiday extension but was rebuffed by Boehner and the right. In fact the right was against the holiday from the beginning. This was a temporary measure and Obama didn't promise anyone that he would extend it, he did try though.

If you want to talk about people breaking promises, what about all those republicans who signed the norquist agreement but ended up voting for this deal that included ending the holiday?

[philibusters]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

Yes, it was a typo. I meant 6.2%. So knowing you know I meant that, you had no reason to go on with your latter screed.

But if any of your dismissal had any validity, the military wouldn’t find it necessary to send out an email to every military person warning them their paychecks are going to be changed. And that’s not even the point… I gave you videos of Obama stating he wasn’t going to touch taxes on the middle class. That turned out to be a lie. Now I know – you being a big Obama supporter – you’re okay with that; you’re okay with the middle class taxes going up; you’re okay with this president lying to us. And, as I tried to point out, Obamacare is also nothing but one big tax on EVERY American, as judged by the SCOTUS. Everyone's taxes are going up despite what this president promised and the ones that do the most for this country, the ones that get paid the least to do so, are going to be impacted all due to politicians that are unable to tell us the truth.

When I was in college I took a political theory course. We were reading Plato's Republic. I never liked Plato (partly because he is never intellectually honest). Anyway, I was nitpicking at Plato as were some of my classmates in the class discussion. The Professor kind of stopped us and said something along the lines of, you can nitpick anybody, but it is much more impressive if you oppose somebody's position to address their argument dead on and not nit pick on small points that really don't go to the heart of the matter.

In this case, there was a payroll tax deduction agreed to at the end of 2010 that ended up being applicable to the 2011 and 2012 tax deal. Neither party really wanted to extend the payroll tax cut. Rather the parties were fighting over how to reduce the deficit. Obama said his position was to have citizens making over $250,000 pay an increased marginal rate along with minor spending cut. If you want to address the heart of Obama's position it increased tax revenue will make up about half of deficit reduction and that cuts to future spending need not be significant. That is a position I have a problem with. Attacking Obama mercilessly on points such as whether he lied about not letting the tax cuts expire for the middle class is a little bit of nitpicking. For when thing when Obama talked about keeping the tax cuts in place for the middle class it is very likely he was subjectively referring to the Bush tax cuts.

[PsyOps (Premo)]

Originally Posted by philibusters

When I was in college I took a political theory course. We were reading Plato's Republic. I never liked Plato (partly because he is never intellectually honest). Anyway, I was nitpicking at Plato as were some of my classmates in the class discussion. The Professor kind of stopped us and said something along the lines of, you can nitpick anybody, but it is much more impressive if you oppose somebody's position to address their argument dead on and not nit pick on small points that really don't go to the heart of the matter.

In this case, there was a payroll tax deduction agreed to at the end of 2010 that ended up being applicable to the 2011 and 2012 tax deal. Neither party really wanted to extend the payroll tax cut. Rather the parties were fighting over how to reduce the deficit. Obama said his position was to have citizens making over $250,000 pay an increased marginal rate along with minor spending cut. If you want to address the heart of Obama's position it increased tax revenue will make up about half of deficit reduction and that cuts to future spending need not be significant. That is a position I have a problem with. Attacking Obama mercilessly on points such as whether he lied about not letting the tax cuts expire for the middle class is a little bit of nitpicking. For when thing when Obama talked about keeping the tax cuts in place for the middle class it is very likely he was subjectively referring to the Bush tax cuts.

This is just one of a plethora of lies from this president.

Transparency
Obamacare and the whole manner in which it was passed
“If you like the health care plan you have you can keep it”
Obamacare is not a new tax
Unemployment will not go above 8%
Against gay marriage/for gay marriage
Close Gitmo
The Patriot Act
Cut the deficit in half
Get rid of earmarks
“You didn’t build that”

I don’t think it’s nitpicking to point out the effects of raising taxes (or allowing taxes to go up - if there is really any difference); particularly on our military. Hundreds of thousands will feel the pain. I’m already reading about people feeling the pain of this tax going up. What I find nitpicking is someone like Tilted trying to say when Obama made his promise that taxes wouldn’t go up, the rate on SS was at 6% then lowered later and is now just going back to its original rate. That is the same argument liberals are making about raising taxes back to the Clinton days. Tell that to the thousands of young military folks that joined less than 2 years ago that got used to the 4.2% and now have to suffer sticker shock on the heels of believing Obama wasn’t going to touch their taxes. If they complain, will they be nitpicking? I think many are going to remember “If you make under %250k you wont see a dime of your taxes go up”, regardless of what happened when.

[philibusters]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

This is just one of a plethora of lies from this president.

Transparency
Obamacare and the whole manner in which it was passed
“If you like the health care plan you have you can keep it”
Obamacare is not a new tax
Unemployment will not go above 8%
Against gay marriage/for gay marriage
Close Gitmo
The Patriot Act
Cut the deficit in half
Get rid of earmarks
“You didn’t build that”

I don’t think it’s nitpicking to point out the effects of raising taxes (or allowing taxes to go up - if there is really any difference); particularly on our military. Hundreds of thousands will feel the pain. I’m already reading about people feeling the pain of this tax going up. What I find nitpicking is someone like Tilted trying to say when Obama made his promise that taxes wouldn’t go up, the rate on SS was at 6% then lowered later and is now just going back to its original rate. That is the same argument liberals are making about raising taxes back to the Clinton days. Tell that to the thousands of young military folks that joined less than 2 years ago that got used to the 4.2% and now have to suffer sticker shock on the heels of believing Obama wasn’t going to touch their taxes. If they complain, will they be nitpicking? I think many are going to remember “If you make under %250k you wont see a dime of your taxes go up”, regardless of what happened when.

Everybody not just the military got used to 4.2%. Its actually the self employed who are getting hit the hardest though. Basically the way FICA taxes worth is that the employees pays 6.2%, but their employer also pays 6.2% of the employees salary. The reduction applied to both the employee and employer share. Since self employed people pay both shares, their taxes just got increased 4% rather than 2% for everybody else.

[PsyOps (Premo)]

Originally Posted by philibusters

Everybody not just the military got used to 4.2%. Its actually the self employed who are getting hit the hardest though. Basically the way FICA taxes worth is that the employees pays 6.2%, but their employer also pays 6.2% of the employees salary. The reduction applied to both the employee and employer share. Since self employed people pay both shares, their taxes just got increased 4% rather than 2% for everybody else.

Yes, I know. I pointed that out. This thread is supposed to be about the impact this will have on our military; you know, that 98%?

[Salvador]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

You know, I'm not going to waste my time with someone that is going to split hairs on this. 'Not a dime of our taxes' would go up. A lot of people are going to see their paychecks reduced, and the military is preparing them for the sticker shock. This is not even discussing what's coming in the new TAX called Obamacare. It doesn't matter when they lowered then raised taxes; they are going up and folks are going to feel the pain.

I bet if yours and others employers subtracted the amount of time you are on the forums and facebook during "work hours" you could probably call the reduction in paychecks a wash.

[Gilligan (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Salvador

I bet if yours and others employers subtracted the amount of time you are on the forums and facebook during "work hours" you could probably call the reduction in paychecks a wash.

My boss encourages me to spend time on here.

[laynpipe]

What I find odd about this whole thing is that President Obama lowered the SS tax rate to 4.2%. This put 2% more in your paycheck for the past several years.

Now, the rate has expired as deemed by law and gone back to its original form of 6.2%. Everyone is outraged. But I have not heard one person thanking him for the several years of the 2% higher paychecks. Hell, I'm grateful for every penny extra I received during that time of the payroll tax holiday.

Had he left the rate alone, this would not even be a thread on the boards.

[Gilligan (Premo)]

I'm not outraged; I thought it was an incredibly stupid thing to do to lower the contribution rate on a program that is broke...simply making it more broke more faster.

Just to score some political points with his base.