A bush supporting religious right person sent me this...

[Spoiled]

From: nonono@asassa.com
Subject: Does this sound right?
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 07:09:15 -0400
To: many people
Full Headers
Undecoded Letter


I'm trying to get all this political stuff straightened out in my head
so I'll know how to vote come November. Right now, we have one guy saying
one thing. Then the other guy says something else. Who to believe. Lemme
see; have I got this straight?

Clinton awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Yugoslavia - good...
Bush awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Iraq - bad...

Clinton spends 77 billion on war in Serbia - good...
Bush spends 87 billion in Iraq - bad...

Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanian terrorists- good...
Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator - bad...

Clinton bombs Chinese embassy - good...
Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad...

Clinton commits felonies while in office - good...
Bush lands on aircraft carrier in jumpsuit - bad...

No mass graves found in Serbia - good...
No WMD found Iraq - bad...

Stock market crashes in 2000 under Clinton - good...
Economy on upswing under Bush - bad...

Clinton refuses to take custody of Bin Laden - good...
World Trade Centers fall under Bush - bad...

Clinton says Saddam has nukes - good...
Bush says Saddam has nukes - bad...

Clinton calls for regime change in Iraq - good...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

Terrorist training in Afghanistan under Clinton - good...
Bush destroys training camps in Afghanistan - bad...

Milosevic not yet convicted - good..
Saddam turned over for trial - bad...

Ahh, it's so confusing!

Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the average tax burden
on Americans, and then calculates the "Tax Freedom Day". This is the day
after which the money you earn goes to you, not the government. This year, tax
freedom day was April 11th. That's the earliest it has been since 1991. It's
latest day ever was May 2nd, which occurred in 2000. Notice anything special
about those dates?

Recently, John Kerry gave a speech in which he claimed Americans are
actually paying more taxes under Bush, despite the tax cuts. He gave
no explanation and provided no data for this claim.

Another interesting fact: Both George Bush and John Kerry are wealthy men.
Bush owns only one home, his ranch in Texas. Kerry owns 4 mansions,
all worth several million dollars. (His ski resort home in Idaho is an old barn
brought over from Europe in pieces. Not your average A-frame).

Bush paid $250,000 in taxes this year; Kerry paid $90,000. Does that
sound right? The man who wants to raise your taxes obviously has figured out
a way to avoid paying his own.

Only 41 days until the election

problem is many of these 'facts' arent true, and many of them have nothing to do with eachother...

its amazing some of the stuff many of these people on the right will believe just because a random person forwarded it to them...

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by Spoiled

problem is many of these 'facts' arent true, and many of them have nothing to do with eachother...

Which ones?

[2ndAmendment]

OK. I have not checked out all those items so I will not vouch for their veracity. Here are some items that are absolutely true; you can find out by reading the party platforms.

Voluntary prayer in school:
Against - Democrats
For - Republicans

Homosexual marriage or unions:
Against - Republicans
For - Democrats

Abortion
Against - Republicans
For - Democrats

If you consider yourself a Christian, read this http://forums.somd.com/showthread.ph...964#post602964 , otherwise don't bother.

If you are a supporter of the Constitution and the Second Amendment, read this In case you missed what Kerry has done about the Second Amendment ; if not, oh well, when your favorite right is taken away by a government out of control don't blame us for trying to keep a way to fight for our rights.

[2ndAmendment]

Originally Posted by vraiblonde

Which ones?

That is an interesting question. Spoiled, you assert that some of these items are not facts. Please elaborate and include your sources. Without sources, it is just he said she said and and your assertion is meaningless.

[FromTexas]

Like you will see a real response from Spoiled.

[Spoiled]

Clinton awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Yugoslavia - good... Bush awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Iraq - bad...

OK, was the corruption there too? And Halliburton wasn’t his main contractor… http://www.counterpunch.org/warmerch.html

Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good... Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

Clintons war was legal, and had the support of the world.
It isn’t referred to as the US’s war against Serbia, it was NATO’s war against Serbia…
http://www.time.com/time/europe/time.../sr990517.html


Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanian terrorists- good... Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator - bad...

Who cares what religion they are? The Serbs where committing genocide, if you validate that by saying they (the Serbs) are Christian and the Albanians are Muslim then you have issues... It wasn’t on behalf of the terrorists, it was carried out on behalf of the people (yes people, Muslims, non-Muslims, PEOPLE). To say all of them are terrorists is saying all Americans are terrorists and hate their country because of Timothy McVay and other terrorists which where homegrown (’96 Olympics?) And Clinton along with the support of the world helped rescue an entire region from Genocide which was taking place at that time, not decades before declaring war.


Clinton bombs Chinese embassy - good... Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad...

Clinton made a mistake, it was bad… There is always collateral damage, to ignore it is ignorant and it is never pretty. Bush’s wasn’t a mistake, you can’t compare them… And who said bombing of terrorist camps was bad? I say the hurting of innocent civilians is bad and will just provide support for the terrorists…
This is what is bad:
http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/#count
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm


Clinton commits felonies while in office - good... Bush lands on aircraft carrier in jumpsuit - bad...

Obviously Clinton’s perjury wasn’t good, hence the reason he was impeached… How can these two be compared? Comparing felonies with publicity stunts, wtf?

No mass graves found in Serbia - good... No WMD found Iraq - bad...

But the Serbia war wasn’t illegal, this point is moot because we did find mass graves in Serbia, check your facts…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1414735.stm
http://www.planetsave.com/ViewStory.asp?ID=1267


Stock market crashes in 2000 under Clinton - good... Economy on upswing under Bush - bad...

Its on an upswing for a few months as opposed to a whole 2 terms…

Clinton refuses to take custody of Bin Laden - good... World Trade Centers fall under Bush - bad...

Ive heard many sides to this story, and I doubt that its 100% true
"Mr. Bin Laden used to live in Sudan ... And we’d been hearing that the Sudanese wanted America to start meeting with them again. They released him. At the time, '96, he had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here because we had no basis on which to hold him, though we knew he wanted to commit crimes against America."
-President Clinton
In America we give people (well gave, thank you Patriot Act) rights…
“In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the ******crime shall have been committed******, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.”
Amendment VI (United State Constitution, Bill of Rights)



Clinton says Saddam has nukes - good... Bush says Saddam has nukes - bad...

Did clinton say that? At least he didn’t act on it before he got all of his intel straight and devised a plan…
http://www.nationalreview.com/levin/levin072103.asp
Closest thing I found, any by the looks of it he was meant any WMDs Iraq may have, including nuclear.

Clinton calls for regime change in Iraq - good... Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

Bush waged an ILLEGAL war on Iraq, Clinton did not… Calling for and imposing are two different things.

Terrorist training in Afghanistan under Clinton - good... Bush destroys training camps in Afghanistan - bad...

No way to go into Afghanistan with it being legal, and I never said the Afghanistan-US war was bad either…

Milosevic not yet convicted - good.. Saddam turned over for trial - bad...

Saddam hasn’t been convicted either, that is out of the US’ hands anyhow, its up to the International court… What was the point here again?

Recently, John Kerry gave a speech in which he claimed Americans are actually paying more taxes under Bush, despite the tax cuts. He gave
no explanation and provided no data for this claim.

I haven’t heard this one…. Oh, wait here it is…
"Over the last four years, the burden of taxes has shifted from the wealthy to the middle class. The middle class is paying more taxes." –Kerry
Well, he said the middle class is, and from the looks of it he is comparing their tax burden to the more wealthy people’s… He’s not saying everyone is paying more, hes just saying comparatively the middle class are paying more THAN the upper class.

Another interesting fact: Both George Bush and John Kerry are wealthy men. Bush owns only one home, his ranch in Texas. Kerry owns 4 mansions, all worth several million dollars. (His ski resort home in Idaho is an old barn brought over from Europe in pieces. Not your average A-frame).

OK?
They Both know this, if you watched the debates you would notice that John Kerry said that himself.


Bush paid $250,000 in taxes this year; Kerry paid $90,000. Does that
sound right? The man who wants to raise your taxes obviously has figured out a way to avoid paying his own.

I would love to see where this came from, and how much Kerry said he made a year… I have an odd feeling he’s not making as much as Bush… If you want to see where it matters compare their wives taxes, I think that will show a different story…
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in611620.shtml
http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/thpweb...s?OpenDocument

[Spoiled]

Voluntary prayer in school:
Against (not too sure on this one, but i think its only if its faculty sponsored) - Democrats
For - Republicans

Homosexual marriage or unions:
Against - Republicans
For (Kind of, they just dont feel its the federal governemnts place to regulate it, more of a state issue) - Democrats

Abortion
Against - Republicans
For (to some extent, they do have their limits, IE partial birth abortion) - Democrats

[2ndAmendment]

Originally Posted by Spoiled

Voluntary prayer in school:
Against (not too sure on this one, but i think its only if its faculty sponsored) - Democrats
For - Republicans

Homosexual marriage or unions:
Against - Republicans
For (Kind of, they just dont feel its the federal governemnts place to regulate it, more of a state issue) - Democrats

Abortion
Against - Republicans
For (to some extent, they do have their limits, IE partial birth abortion) - Democrats

You really need to read before you express your opinions. This is not Chit Chat. We expect more of the posters in this forum.

[Spoiled]

Originally Posted by 2ndAmendment

You really need to read before you express your opinions. This is not Chit Chat. We expect more of the posters in this forum.

YOu posted them as if they were black and white, when they are not... :flush: :tool: :dosman:

[FromTexas]

Originally Posted by Spoiled

Clinton awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Yugoslavia - good... Bush awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Iraq - bad...

So, you are arguing that it is a fact then...

Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good... Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

Clintons war was legal, and had the support of the world.
It isn’t referred to as the US’s war against Serbia, it was NATO’s war against Serbia…
http://www.time.com/time/europe/time.../sr990517.html

So, you aren't arguing that what was stated was a fact then...

Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanian terrorists- good... Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator - bad...

Who cares what religion they are? The Serbs where committing genocide, if you validate that by saying they (the Serbs) are Christian and the Albanians are Muslim then you have issues... It wasn’t on behalf of the terrorists, it was carried out on behalf of the people (yes people, Muslims, non-Muslims, PEOPLE). To say all of them are terrorists is saying all Americans are terrorists and hate their country because of Timothy McVay and other terrorists which where homegrown (’96 Olympics?) And Clinton along with the support of the world helped rescue an entire region from Genocide which was taking place at that time, not decades before declaring war.

Again, you aren't arguing that what was stated was a fact then.

Clinton bombs Chinese embassy - good... Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad...

Clinton made a mistake, it was bad… There is always collateral damage, to ignore it is ignorant and it is never pretty. Bush’s wasn’t a mistake, you can’t compare them… And who said bombing of terrorist camps was bad? I say the hurting of innocent civilians is bad and will just provide support for the terrorists…
This is what is bad:
http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/#count
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

Once again, you aren't arguing that it was a fact.

Clinton commits felonies while in office - good... Bush lands on aircraft carrier in jumpsuit - bad...

Obviously Clinton’s perjury wasn’t good, hence the reason he was impeached… How can these two be compared? Comparing felonies with publicity stunts, wtf?

Once again you aren't arguing that it was a fact.

No mass graves found in Serbia - good... No WMD found Iraq - bad...

But the Serbia war wasn’t illegal, this point is moot because we did find mass graves in Serbia, check your facts…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1414735.stm
http://www.planetsave.com/ViewStory.asp?ID=1267

Finally dealing with the issue of fact... You got one so far.

Stock market crashes in 2000 under Clinton - good... Economy on upswing under Bush - bad...

Its on an upswing for a few months as opposed to a whole 2 terms…

Not dealing with whether its fact. Also, Clinton had an average unemployment rate during his two terms higher than its been under Bush..yet, Bush bad, Clinton good. Clinton had a worse record of home ownership and personal debt increase on his watch as well. It wasn't good the whole two terms the way democrats define good and bad economy now. In fact, it wasn't good till into his second term by the way democrast define it.

Clinton refuses to take custody of Bin Laden - good... World Trade Centers fall under Bush - bad...

Ive heard many sides to this story, and I doubt that its 100% true
"Mr. Bin Laden used to live in Sudan ... And we’d been hearing that the Sudanese wanted America to start meeting with them again. They released him. At the time, '96, he had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here because we had no basis on which to hold him, though we knew he wanted to commit crimes against America."
-President Clinton
In America we give people (well gave, thank you Patriot Act) rights…
“In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the ******crime shall have been committed******, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.”
Amendment VI (United State Constitution, Bill of Rights)

Again, you are not arguing fact or not fact... BTW, at that time, Bin Laden had already commited crimes against the U.S. Also, Bin Laden is not protected by our Constitution...

Clinton says Saddam has nukes - good... Bush says Saddam has nukes - bad...

Did clinton say that? At least he didn’t act on it before he got all of his intel straight and devised a plan…
http://www.nationalreview.com/levin/levin072103.asp
Closest thing I found, any by the looks of it he was meant any WMDs Iraq may have, including nuclear.

Again, not arguing fact or truth. Do you rememeber why Clinton threw missles at an asprin factory in iraq? Sheesh! Such short term memory.

Clinton calls for regime change in Iraq - good... Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

Bush waged an ILLEGAL war on Iraq, Clinton did not… Calling for and imposing are two different things.

Again, you are not disputing the facts.. you are agreeings its a fact.

Terrorist training in Afghanistan under Clinton - good... Bush destroys training camps in Afghanistan - bad...

No way to go into Afghanistan with it being legal, and I never said the Afghanistan-US war was bad either…

Not arguing whether its fact or not again...

Milosevic not yet convicted - good.. Saddam turned over for trial - bad...

Saddam hasn’t been convicted either, that is out of the US’ hands anyhow, its up to the International court… What was the point here again?

You aren't arguing fact or not... which if you rememeber, was your statement that started this...

Recently, John Kerry gave a speech in which he claimed Americans are actually paying more taxes under Bush, despite the tax cuts. He gave
no explanation and provided no data for this claim.

I haven’t heard this one…. Oh, wait here it is…
"Over the last four years, the burden of taxes has shifted from the wealthy to the middle class. The middle class is paying more taxes." –Kerry
Well, he said the middle class is, and from the looks of it he is comparing their tax burden to the more wealthy people’s… He’s not saying everyone is paying more, hes just saying comparatively the middle class are paying more THAN the upper class.

BS detector on... The middle class have never and will never pay more than the upper class... again, not arguing whether fact or not

Another interesting fact: Both George Bush and John Kerry are wealthy men. Bush owns only one home, his ranch in Texas. Kerry owns 4 mansions, all worth several million dollars. (His ski resort home in Idaho is an old barn brought over from Europe in pieces. Not your average A-frame).

OK?
They Both know this, if you watched the debates you would notice that John Kerry said that himself.

Can you guess what I am going to say? Again, not arguing fact or not.

Bush paid $250,000 in taxes this year; Kerry paid $90,000. Does that
sound right? The man who wants to raise your taxes obviously has figured out a way to avoid paying his own.

I would love to see where this came from, and how much Kerry said he made a year… I have an odd feeling he’s not making as much as Bush… If you want to see where it matters compare their wives taxes, I think that will show a different story…
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in611620.shtml
http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/thpweb...s?OpenDocument

Hmmmmm.... Out of all those bad facts you were mentioning you only found one. Go you!