Those oh so tolerant little liberals

[Tonio]

Originally Posted by vraiblonde

No need to insult. Tonio has always tried to see both sides of the fence and taken issue with forced religion. Nothing wrong with that.

I think a lot of people took issue with AC's column simply because they didn't read the whole thing - only heard that particular sentence quoted relentlessly by outraged liberals. You think about it differently when it's put in context with the rest of the column.

Thanks, Vrai. That was my point, too.

[SamSpade]

Originally Posted by vraiblonde

No need to insult. Tonio has always tried to see both sides of the fence and taken issue with forced religion. Nothing wrong with that.

I think a lot of people took issue with AC's column simply because they didn't read the whole thing - only heard that particular sentence quoted relentlessly by outraged liberals. You think about it differently when it's put in context with the rest of the column.

Agreed, regarding Tonio.

But with Ann, I just usually bristle at the Hate Ann sites that continuously quote her out of context. Even TIME magazine did the same.

Ann can get on my nerves too. But I've usually found that if you're not being a nitwit about things, she's usually right on target. She definitely got me re-thinking everything I ever THOUGHT I knew about McCarthy.

[aps45819]

Originally Posted by Tonio

I see the war on terrorism as purely one of self-defense. .

that will guarantee you lose.

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by Tonio

It burns my blood when Bin Laden tells his followers that America seeks to destory Islam.

But it's a great marketing ploy. Say what you will about bin Laden, but he is a smart guy and knows his audience.

By playing the race/religion card, he gets not only Muslims but American liberals on his side. Both of those groups fear Christians and any kind of white superiority.

Muslims think we're all going to hell because of the infidel Jesus freaks and liberals think the Jesus freaks are trying to create an American theocracy and curtail their right to promiscuous sex and killing their unborn children.

Islamists don't like the technological advances of the Western world because it shows them up for the third-worlders they are. Liberals don't like white people because they're obsessively pro-minority.

Since neither of these groups have even the remotest thing in common besides their fear and hatred of Christians and whites, that's what OBL uses to band them together. Makes perfect sense.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

In my view, America shouldn't fight holy wars.

We are at an historical crossroads. For the first time in history, the most powerful nation, over a significant period of time, is not colonizing or militarily dominating international commerce and trade and everything else it can.

We have two of the most awesome weapons in history, aircraft carriers and boomer subs yet our commerce fleet is virtually non existent.

We lead the world in aircraft technology and our war planes are capable of dominating the air space ANYWHERE on the planet, anytime and who is now ruling the commercial skies? No longer Boeing but now Airbus.

Manufacturing? Quick, think of something, ANYTHING we still make here.
We import near everything.

We can mobilize ground troops and their equipment in a matter of days, put them anywhere on the globe and reinforce and supply them as need be and no one, NO ONE can make them leave. They will own wherever they stand.

And what do we get from much of the world?

Make a case, anyone, for not destroying and I mean wiping off the face of the earth, all of our enemies?

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by Larry Gude

Why not?

Because America was built on religious freedom. A "Holy War" signifies that we intend to take over those of other faiths and convert them to ours in the name of "God". Therefore it's not something the US should take part in.

I'm content to live and let live. I don't really care what they do in other parts of the world. They can exterminate themselves by polluting their water supply and eating their offspring if they want. I'm no missionary. My problem begins when they start messing with us and trying to control OUR lifestyle here, or when they directly attack us.

Other than that, stay in your hut in the desert. See if I care.

[Bustem' Down]

Damn, ya'll flamed me and all I was trying to do was come up with a meaning for the word "controversialist".

controversialist

n : a person who disputes; who is good at or enjoys controversy


Like I said, UT is a very liberal university. It's just overflowing with hippies.

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by Bustem' Down

It's just overflowing with hippies.

Texas don't have no hippies. They got cowboys.

[rraley]

Vrai, you are a smart lady. I extremely respect you and your opinions on many issues. Many times you articulate a wonderful point that is defensible by facts, illustrations, and examples....

But, what is this all about?

Muslims think we're all going to hell because of the infidel Jesus freaks

and this...

American liberals...fear Christians

Vrai, what could provoke you to think this? Yes, there are Islamist terrorists that think that Americans are infidels and are going to hell. But to suggest that all Muslims believe so is incredibly wrong and insensitive/unaware of the true teachings and nature of Islam. The Quran preaches the same sort of honor for life as the Christian Bible and it has something similar to a "thou shalt not kill" commandment. There is a small group of terrible Islamists who have hijacked the Islamic religion for their own narrow political purposes and they have fed on discontent in the lower class (which many in the Middle East are members of due to poor economics). When we see radical Islamic groups gaining support over there it is not due to the influence of radical Islam, but due to a low standard of living. In areas where the poverty rate is out of control and unemployment is widespread, it is natural for people to seek a scapegoat and when the radicals are the only ones speaking, they soon drift towards them. It's the same sort of dynamics that provoked Adolf Hitler to ascend to leadership in Germany. Poor economics, he says the "Jews did it" and bang we got a violent regime in power.

To win the War on Terror, which is both a defensive and offensive war, we must see that this isn't about getting rid of Islam, but that this is about getting rid of economic and social injustice. This combined with the continuation of a strong effort to use smart warfare to catch terrorists and to choke off their suppliers will ultimately lead us to victory. But to strive for "conversion" would be a big mistake as it would distract us from the real problem in the Middle East.

As for the whole liberals fearing Christians...come on now...I'm a liberal and I go to Mass every weekend and try to lead a faithful and Christ-centered life.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by SamSpade

You mean, this bit?

The point is well made - it's war, dammit. In war, you pull out the stops, and do the damage needed to win, because he won't even hesitate to do the same. You kick the crap out of them until they surrender or they are dead. There is no "PC" war, even if people want there to be one. You fight to win, not for a tie. This is why war should be carefully considered, and used as a last resort - BUT ONCE COMMITTED TO IT, you don't let up until it's over. "Never start a fight, but *always* finish one".

There are people in this country that think you can make a nice war. These people are the same that want to put the military under a microscope and examine every action that is taken on the battlefield. These people are morons. They have never been in the military and do not understand there is no such thing as a nice war. War is something to be avoided, but if you have to make war, than make it hell so they'll never want another one.