Interesting Take on Blacks

[dustin]

Originally Posted by elaine

The problem with this whole analogy is that it's being applied only to blacks.

noone is perfect, not even Bruzilla

[Tonio]

Originally Posted by SamSpade

I spent about ten years of my life in a controlling, fundamentalist cult. People often ask "why didn't you leave?" - to which I usually answer something like "well I'm not WITH them now, so I guess I did". But the reasons why I stayed and the reasons why I left can be complex - they range from self-doubt, economics, a place to go, trust, fear, loneliness - and the fact that it really wasn't so terrible some of the time.

Most ex-members liken the whole turmoil and experience of leaving a cult to a situation some of us are familiar with - an abused spouse. *WHY* do they linger? Why do they defend the abuser? Why do they go back? The psychology is the same almost across the board.

I think with slavery, the psychology is similar - many fled, many stayed even though they were unhappy. Life can be miserable, but for some it takes a lot to get them to take the risks. Once it starts, the flow can be huge - the church that I was in began to see an outright EXODUS once the Internet became widespread, and they began to learn about others who had left. By best estimates, 3/4 of all those who were ever members have eventually left - but this number was SMALL when people didn't know they had options.

I think this happens elsewhere - once people become aware of options they have, they're more likely to take the risks.

Thanks so much for your post, Sam. The mindset you describe could also apply to people raised in abusive families. I think it might also apply, to a lesser degree, to people obsessed with conspiracy theories.

[Hessian]

To broach this issue in a public forum (ie a university where open discussion should be encouraged) would be the impetus for a riot.
However...it should be a decent discussion.

I have another analogy to throw out: Look at the reaction of the Jews in the Labor camps under Nazi rule--when a new order came down for a relocation...some kind of major change in schedule--the victims responded in panic/fear: Even if they lived in utter misery----it was routine, and routine is a psychological safety zone.

Slaves in the Mid-Atlantic during the Antebellum saw a noticeable decline in number as Tobacco fell in value and cotton was economically untenable. Thus the fear was: being "Sold South"...as the value of slaves steadily rose in the Deep south.
CHANGE IS NOT GOOD!
(why did Frederick Douglas "steal himself?" in the 1840's?)

Sad thought of the day: 75% of all Slave Families were intact with ready Fictive relatives willing to help out (ie "Aunt Emma"...non kin but has the role)
What is the statistic today?



**Sam...please consider coming back to the Dharma initiative, Hanso needs you.

[Tonio]

Originally Posted by Hessian

I have another analogy to throw out: Look at the reaction of the Jews in the Labor camps under Nazi rule--when a new order came down for a relocation...some kind of major change in schedule--the victims responded in panic/fear: Even if they lived in utter misery----it was routine, and routine is a psychological safety zone.

You have something there. Writers such as black columnist William Raspberry say that the black community in America seems to have post-traumatic stress disorder. It shows up as a combination of hopelessness and distrust of authority. For many blacks, the "psychological safety zone" must involve self-identification as victims.

Originally Posted by Hessian

**Sam...please consider coming back to the Dharma initiative, Hanso needs you.

Is "Lost" any good? I have never seen the show. Most of my knowledge about the show comes from Elliott Segal's morning show on DC101.

[Bustem' Down]

Anyone remember Disney's Briar Rabbit, Briar Fox, and Briar Bear? Now that was racist.

Originally Posted by dustin

noone is perfect, not even Bruzilla

That's the truth! If I were perfect I wouldn't be hanging out with you guys... I would be over posting on DU!

Originally Posted by elaine

The problem with this whole analogy is that it's being applied only to blacks.

I think the focus is on blacks because we really don't have any other large segment of the population in this country that's "kept". We have thousands of dead-broke immigrants coming in (legally and illegally) from Mexico, Asia, etc., but these people never developed that kept mentality in their home country, so when the get here they sieze opportunity and run with it. You can consider native americans, but they are a pretty small population sample.

On a behavioral level you could also include white people in Appalachia, but those folks get by on their own for the most part and don't heavily rely on government support. They live in a clapboard shack, but it's a shack that they built and that they call their own. They live on hunted and grown food, but it's food that they hunted and grew. I would never want to live like that, but I would guess there's a good bit of pride in relying on yourself to get by that keeps them there.

[Nupe2]

Bruzilla:

This is a heavy topic and I've got a lot of work to do today (despite the meetings). To be brief, I agree with Nickel's comment. Having said that, there is a degree of truth in some of your thoughts insofar as slavery existed many years longer than "freedom" for blacks in this country. So yes, there is a "mentality" that may have become ingrained in prior generations of Blacks who were either slaves themselves or were within one generation of slavery. That doesn't mean that later generations are incapable of rising above this self-limiting mindset. Many have.

In speaking from the general to the specific, I was born and raised in "the inner city" and most in my family have long since discarded this "slave mentality" and have succeeded in this society despite obstacles that some of our less "liberal" fellow Americans would place in front of us. It has been ingrained in us since day one that education, skills, common sense, dignity and faith are tools to respect, success (however that is measured) and increased opportunity.

The more I have learned about slavery, the more I'm amazed at the courage it took for freed blacks to move beyond it. I think about the promise of Reconstruction and the compromise that destroyed it and I wonder how we've survived. I too watched Gone with the Wind last night. I can't imagine what living in that evil society was like. I've visited a slave graveyard where adjacent to those places, little more than mounds of earth and stones, were elaborate headstones erected by the slaveowner in the memory of HORSES! The slaveowner in this instance was James Madison, the fourth President of the United States. It brought tears to my eyes when I saw it.

I don't think you understand the pain that lingers for a lot of Black Folk who aware of their history in this country. Nevertheless, we all need to continue to move on. Every day when I come to work I think about the people that died to provide me with the opportunity to get an education, a career and degree of freedom undreamed of by my great-great grandparents. More people than you know carry this with them every day. Some use it to spur them on while others chose to ignore it. So no, I don't think inner city blacks are like slaves, some have made choices to remain where they are, some lack sufficient education, skills and direction and are simply unable to move beyond their current locales. Others view it simply as home. Slaves had no such choices. They were forceably removed from their native land and deposited in a hostile and foreign environment, stripped of their native culture, language and beliefs and considered chattle by their "owners." As bad as things might be at any given time in this country for Black people, there is absolutely no substantial correllation to that shameful institution.

[sushisamba (Premo)]

Originally Posted by dustin

Fear of the unknown, control since birth. I liken it to the Matrix. What is real? How does one define real? Most slaves were probably oblivious to the life which was being denied.

Remember, owners denied their slaves basic reading and writing skills in an attempt to blind them from the real world around them.

Yep, and before the Women's Movement, men did it to women.

[vraiblonde]

Originally Posted by elaine

The problem with this whole analogy is that it's being applied only to blacks.

True - it's not a black thing or a white thing. It's a human nature thing. People are basically lazy and will take the path of least resistance.

Government slavery is not specific to blacks - those bastards will try to enslave anyone who'll let them. It just so happens that the "black leadership" has a vested interest in keeping that slave mentality - otherwise they would become obsolete.

Whites take freedom for granted - we give it very little day-to-day thought.

Blacks have been trained by the media not to take their freedom for granted - they have dozens of baiters on TV every single day telling them that they are only a hair away from picking cotton on some plantation or mammying for Miss Scarlett.